Difference between Omnimancy and energy work

[Lebra]

I ask this question with all due respect and am genuinely curious as to your response. This is not a flame and I am not a troll -- I'm just genuinely interested in whether I should apply for membership. I also apologize if this has been posted before.

Reading through the entire Omnimancy.com site I am having trouble differentiating Omnimancy from general energy work. From what I've seen so far this seems like glorified energy work. What's new about your practice?

[LordArt]

I'm not offended at all. As a matter of fact, I'm disappointed it's taken THIS long for someone to ask that very question.

What is posted on the public part of the site is nothing more than glorified energy working. But that's the base foundation of Omnimancy. It's a matter of what is done afterwards, that makes Omnimancy different. Energy magic is one cornerstone, what we call "Tech" is another. Observation on how things work is yet another.

"Tech" can stand for both "technology" and/or "technique". It is a method where understanding how things work allows extremely effecient use of energy for particular tasks. Now don't take this as "We know how everything works." We don't. But we do know some things work. Much like normal science doesn't know how everything works, but knows enough to take advantage of what it does know, hence why we have computers, cars, heart transplants, and spaceships. As science's knowledge of how things work grows, it will allow new ways of taking advantage of that knowledge. Tech is based on that same principle. Both observation and execution end up feeding on each other to gain more understanding.

Most energy working is based on "raw will." The answer for being more effective is putting more power behind it. Some systems or people will use things called "constructs" to make their magic more effectient. This would be the tech equivalant of a simple lever. The basest of normal Omnimancy tech would be considered a complex machine (using this anaolgy), like a car. A car has MANY parts, all doing a single (but different) job, but working together, creating something larger than the sum of it's parts. These parts are interchangable with other parts that are totally unrelated to produce brand new effects that the original concept never was meant for.

In certain cases, the tech applications (spells) can make the caster stronger magically, both increasing their sensing abilities as well as magical strength. Then of course you observe what was previously hard to observe or effect, and develope new tech. Omnimancy members even now are researching new things to further their own abilites and that of the group. Much like scientists publish their work in journals for peer review to verify and enrich other scientists, Omnimanciers do the same thing (but between the members in general). This endless cycle of new abilites and ideas has progressed Omnimancy to what it is now.

The concept of tech is left somewhat vague I know. I have a better analogy for it, but it's easier to do a description if I know your backround, so I can find a point of reference to use to describe it to you. Energy working is too vague a term to create a description by. I can't guarentee I will be framilar with your path of course, so bare with me there.

If you are framilar with the psions at all and their practices, on the surface (ie. what is posted) seems simular ot what they do, but as you may ask the many psions who have joined OmniCyber, they will tell you that it is VERY different and the simularities stop with what's posted.

I hope I have answered your question. If not, please elaborate on what you wish to to go into further. If it's something I feel that can be disclosed on a public forum, I will (which is the main point of NOT going into details with much of this).

Arthur

[Lebra]

You've answered my questions quite well, I think. To answer your question about my background, I am a chaos magician.

[Winter]

If you are framilar with the psions at all and their practices, on the surface (ie. what is posted) seems simular ot what they do, but as you may ask the many psions who have joined OmniCyber, they will tell you that it is VERY different and the simularities stop with what's posted.

Can you maybe tell me something about the differences between omnimancy and psionics?

[Kaylara]

So the basis of omnimancy would be dealing then with different kinds of energy constructs? Would I be correct in assuming that you also deal with astral constructs? How about interpersonal energy connections? The information that is in the public domain is obviously vague, and I understand the reasoning behind it as well, but I am intregued as to exactly what the differences between what you're calling Omnimancy, and what regular energy work is. I mean, no offense, but in seeing what you have as your basis on this site, it appears that it's just like energy work, except at a more advanced stage than most newbies go...

[LordArt]

@Winter

Can you maybe tell me something about the differences between omnimancy and psionics?

One of the Omnimancers who came from psionics can give a more detailed description(Any volenteers to go further than I'm about to?), but part of the main differences is what I listed above. I only know of the group of psionics known as "psions" and so will describe from there.

As a generality, psions don't deal with the astral or the beings therein (prefering to call them critters and leaving it at that, or considering spirits/entities as rogue spells). The astral they call "the veil" and won't go near it. Omnimancy will interact with entities be they dieties or tree spirits or anything inbetween, but normally on an informational level. Psions normally consider the energy they use, termed "psi", as something unique rather than simply a band in a larger magical spectrum. I've been told by a few psions that if psi energy and magical energy meet they explode. Obviously, considering the number of psions that are Omnimancers now, that isn't true. Some other psions will admit that the energy they use is a part of a larger spectrum but won't use anything other than psi. Most psions believe their energy come from their human nervious system, rather than their spirit/soul. Psions won't use externalized power for their practice. I could go on. Generally psions do magic but consider it a pseudo-science with it's basis in science only with no occult overtones, but in purely newtonian or quantum physics. Psionics as represented by the sites I've seen on the subject and those that practice it do energy magic, with different terms, and set different limitations and explanations on why things work. Psions only do raw will, can make a construct, and do what they call "programming" which is simply intent of action into the energy they are using at the time. Intent is also used in omnimancy but is the software that runs the hardware which is the tech, to use a computer analogy. These are generalities of course and individuals can be different or have different ideas. Like many systems these days, psions have their own flavors and beliefs that go with it. So the above doesn't represent all of the psions. However, as a generality, they are not that different from standard energy workers. They are just approaching it from a different point of view.



@Kaylara

So the basis of omnimancy would be dealing then with different kinds of energy constructs?

No, one of the cornerstones, but not the basis. Realistically, a "construct" is not tech, but is a single piece of a larger whole if you were to make tech. There is a distinct difference although without seeing it for yourself it's hard to describe past what I have (or am willing to on a public forum). A construct might be like a shovel, which is technically a machine. Tech would be like a car, made up of hundreds/thousands of contructs working together, which is a complex machine. In a loose term you could still call the car a construct, but it really doesn't do it justice by comparing it to a shovel as a construct.

Tech, Energy Manipulation, Analysis, Research, Magical senses, and Information sharing is the basis of Omnimancy. Each play an important role in supporting the others, and in the end all improve each other and support each other, which continues the cycle of advancement. This is over generalizing of course, but it breaks down to that.

Would I be correct in assuming that you also deal with astral constructs?

Yes, we actually do a lot in the astral.

How about interpersonal energy connections?

Yes, we refer to them as tethers, although we do teach how to do more with those than just sharing energy or information.

The information that is in the public domain is obviously vague, and I understand the reasoning behind it as well, but I am intregued as to exactly what the differences between what you're calling Omnimancy, and what regular energy work is. I mean, no offense, but in seeing what you have as your basis on this site, it appears that it's just like energy work, except at a more advanced stage than most newbies go...

Yes, it is vague and purposely so. What is posted is generally taught in the first 3 weeks of a newbie's training. A typical newbie will train for 18 months, if they show each week and properly learn the several unique topics that are taught each session. At the end of that training they should be qualified to help research, since realisitcally, that's only the beginning. Generally what is in the standard "list" of training is only supposed to give them the essentials, while the interactions between members usually yields FAR more than the standardized list, which normally prepares them for doing their own research at the end of their newbie training. A student gets out what they put in. If a student just shows up to get what is on the list, they miss out on soooo much, and normally their advancement ends once they are through the standard training, because they can't go farther on their own. The majority of what is known is not on the list, just what is deemed essential.

You are however 100% correct in assuming by looking at the public domain stuff that all Omnimancy is is glorified energy working, however it is what we are comfortable with sharing with the unknown masses. It is a catch 22 with posting such information. If you place enough information up there to show what the differences are, you give too much power to those that may not be ready for such information. Many traditions and orders have secrets, and how our stuff works is ours. I wish I knew a way to show the differences without giving away too much. The above description of tech will have to do for now, which sounds like glorified construct construction which it isn't.

[Kaylara]

*laughs* Yeah, I know that it has to be generic for several reasons. I was considering teaching a class on another site for energy work and then slapped myself in the head going "yeah right, are you crazy?!?!" I applaud your responsibilty with it. Most of the people I deal with in this respect come from formal magickal training in one form or the other where mum's the word unless it's with specific people because of the very things you stated. Also, newbies have a tendency to try to test out every new thing they learn on anyone around them who are marginally aware or have the slightest clue, which can get to be a bit much at times. I wonder if there is any way that we could enter into a dialouge about this in a way that wouldn't give away too much information on the site. I'm not sure if I would be interested in Omnimancy based on the information available because it seems like just what I'm already engaged in with another group of people who I already work well with and trust. I'm interested in comparing notes possibly or something along those lines, but I'm not sure if I would want to be involved with the group at large at this point. Do you think something like this would be possible? I don't want to get involved in something unless I'm well informed of it, especially with a group I don't know well. When dealing with things like this, that trust is entirely essential as far as I'm concerned. (for several reasons, of which I'm sure you're fully aware.)

Please let me know

[LordArt]

Yeah, I come from a magical backround too, so I know the deal.

Newbies have a tendency of blowing themselves up, so to speak, so you understand where I'm coming from I see.

Well, since your in NJ, why don't you come to Crucible on the 18th, where I will be giving a lecture. Since you do energy work, you'll get something out of it (hopefully), more than the standard ritual mages. Last year I needed a translator since it really didn't make any sense to them. I'm having a translator this year too, but I'm not going to try to do as an advanced lecture as last year since I got too many glazed looks of wondering what the hell they just listened to.

Worse comes to worse, we can talk at almost anytime during the event. And if that's not possible, perhaps we can meet during one of our normal training sessions or whatever.

Out of curiosity, does your group deal with tech per se, or how simular do you believe what you do already is to what we do?

[Guest]

I was thinking about going to the Crucible... One of my friends told me that this group was hosting it this year, so I figured I might attend.

As far as what my group does, it's more of a group of friends, rather than something formal. We compare notes a lot, work together quite a bit, though mostly with a few specific people within the whole of that group. We deal with a lot of what you call tech, and a lot of astral work as well. From what I can tell, a lot of the public information you have is what we consider to be basic as well, and we will tell people the similar things to what you have as well, as far as advice goes in how they work. We are members of another internet forum that has a lot of members and many of them get into situations they don't understand or know how to deal with, so we wind up counciling them through it privately. Also, we have a lot of people who are opening up and waking up as a result of continued interaction with other people in this group... You know, like when you can feel that someone just has this potential for it? Mostly those people catch our attention right away and we check them out to investigate. There are a lot of newbies who poke us because really they're just testing the waters. I guess it's better than way anyways, because at least we know how to deal with it, and they'll only be touched by our shielding instead of getting zapped. (a la bug zapper lmao)

But I digress... Our group mostly is not present with each other physically, and are spread out around the US, and even have one person from Europe. So it's rather a new experience for most of us because like most magickal practicioners, we're used to interacting energy wise in that manner while physically present. But I'd say over all yes, we're very similar from what I can tell.

[Kaylara]

ack! That last post was me... I forgot to check the box to make it remember me! LMAO! Ok, fixed that now!

[StormSeeker]

Well, speaking as one of the Omnimancers who came from a psionics/general psychism background.. I think Art pretty much summed up all the differences that I have noticed

In general, those who term themselves "psions" don't deal with the astral or entities in the same way as Omnimancers do. Whilst "psions" often encounter perhaps.. low-level "parasitic" type entities (often called "leeches" and such), they don't really consider the possibility of sentient entities, such as deities, existing in the same way we do.

"Psychics" on the other hand, meaning those who come from a more general/traditional psychism background, I have seen deal with spirits and entities in a similar fashion as we do. For example, I'm sure you're familiar with the psychism term of "medium" or "channeller", where someone psychically sensitive can communicate with a spirit/entity and relay that information to someone else or act upon it. I have found that quite a number of online "psionics" groups don't recognize the validity of mediumship or communicating with entities in this manner.

There are still differences between how they deal with/view the astral and how we do, though, as Art explained in more detail.

I know that the term "psion" and "psychic" are often used synonamously, but I do differentiate between them personally, as I've found that those who call themselves "psions"..tend to be from a camp that specifically concerns itself -more- with energy manipulation, constructs, shields and so forth..as well as general psychic skills.

"Psychics" on the other hand, or those that use that term for themselves, tend to be more traditional in nature, and deal with the abilities such as empathy, psychometry, telepathy, channelling, healing and so on. They usually aren't AS familiar or AS active with energy manipulation/constructs/shields as a general "psion" would normally be.

From personal experience, "psion" seems to be a term more used by online folks, than offline. Those who haven't been exposed to sites such as psipog, the Guild and so forth, tend to be more traditional in views/skills and more open in their views and mindset, to other possible truths existing.

Not all psions/psychics term the astral "the veil", although I think that is a popular belief amongst one particular online group. Infact, outside of that particular group, I haven't heard the term used before. Correct me if I'm wrong, Art. I know quite a few, on/offline who call it the astral as we do, and perceive it/travel it in much the same way.

Psions normally consider the energy they use, termed "psi", as something unique rather than simply a band in a larger magical spectrum. I've been told by a few psions that if psi energy and magical energy meet they explode. Obviously, considering the number of psions that are Omnimancers now, that isn't true.

Yep, very commonplace belief..and I think most online psionics sites, either believe that "psi" is an internal energy and can ONLY be an internal energy; or that external energy is somehow "bad" to use or not "as good" as "psi energy"; or that if you use psi and external, they'll explode. Which I have found to be nonsense.

My own learning and experiences prior to joining Omnimancy, hinted at these things not quite being true. So I was never completely sold on their validity myself.

Coming from a background where I learned most of my abilities offline, and in the traditional sort of psychic world...I never encountered those beliefs to the same intensity and degree, until I came online. Whilst the same diferences of opinions and beliefs, exist out amongst the more traditional psychics skills people - they usually either don't believe that what _they think_ in particular, is set in stone, and are open to being convinced of something else. Which is not so true in the psionics communities online, usually...as I'm sure you'll have seen if you've frequented them.

I can hear the cries of "fluff" and "fluffybunny" coming from the lips of those online, now... if you even dare to mention using external energy, on some sites. Oh the blasphemy of not using internal psi for your work

*makes a face* But anyway, I digress. Needless to say, these "beliefs" that they propogate and have gained some popularity, I don't believe to be true. And coming from a psionic/psychic background, and being one of the folks who _was_ told a lot of that...before I came to Omnimancy - I had to be convinced by the Omnis of the veracity of their claims. But they did succeed in disproving those beliefs to me.

Psions only do raw will, can make a construct, and do what they call "programming" which is simply intent of action into the energy they are using at the time. Intent is also used in omnimancy but is the software that runs the hardware which is the tech, to use a computer analogy.

Very big difference between practically all psions/psychics that I've met, and the system of Omnimancy *nods* the use of what we call "tech". It's not usually known about, in psi circles. And whilst I've seen a few psions/psychics in my time that run "tech-based" shields or constructs, they usually don't know that it's _not_ "raw will/programming" and more to the point - they don't know anything about it _consciously_ as we do. They don't recognize it.

And so, the psi folks stick to their "programming" and constructs...which sadly, limits them a great deal, as I was to find out after joining Omni.

These are generalities of course and individuals can be different or have different ideas. Like many systems these days, psions have their own flavors and beliefs that go with it. So the above doesn't represent all of the psions. However, as a generality, they are not that different from standard energy workers. They are just approaching it from a different point of view.

Very much so

I would like to point out one difference, that I have noticed between Omnimancy and psychism, that hasn't been spoken of yet.

I feel that introspection/"know thyself" isn't emphasized as much in Omnimancy as it is in psychism and even psionics which is readily noticable if you pick up any book on psychic skills, due I think to Omni being a more practical, down-to-earth, non-spiritual approach to magic/energy work. I have noticed that a lot of the emphasis that exists in general psychism/psionics on the sheer importance of "knowing thyself", isn't there in Omnimancy the way it is in psychism.

We (Omni) don't teach meditation, not exactly anyway; there is really only one technique (that springs to mind) on the standardized "list", that encourages introspection. And very often what happens is that most people, learn that particular method, and never use it again.

Unlike with psychism, and psionics, where learning is very much a trial and error and practice-based activity, and you not only learn how to accomplish psychic abilities, hopefully; but you also gain an often tremendous amount of introspective, self-knowledge along the way. Omnimancy is more structured training, and a lot less trial and error because those who came before us discovered definitive techniques and ways of doing things, and those are what is taught.

There's no real requirement for months of practice or trial and error to learn the technique. This of course, changes if and when the student advances enough to get involved or interested in research; or indeed if the student comes to realize by him/herself that "know thyself" is a must, but by and large, I think the importance of knowing thyself, is lost more on those who come into Omnimancy, especially those who are newbies to magic and Omni is their first system, than it is on folks who have perhaps spent a good few years trying to learn something on their own.

At least, I found that psychism was almost equally about "knowing thyself" as it was about learning to do psi. After all, if you're self-taught or pulling things out of your ass based on intuition, you kind of HAVE to delve into your mind and try to understand how you work, to get anywhere. When you're just handed stuff, even if you have to figure out how to do it during the class, there isn't much time nor need for any depth of introspection.

And whilst I doubt anyone in Omnimancy would disagree that "know thyself" is a must for any mage, the further the person gets into magic; there are not as many things in the Omni system geared towards this, or as much emphasis openly impressed upon people, to help you in this endeavor; as there are in trad. psychism:

The emphasis is more placed upon the individual, to realize the importance of self-knowledge and introspection. And very often, folks just don't.

Just wanted to point that out, as I do happen to feel it's a difference that is often overlooked when comparing both systems. I value my time as a psychic/psion, mainly because of this "open" importance placed on introspection and knowing yourself, that exists in those areas, as it is something that has helped me personally a great deal.

And whilst there is certainly nothing in Omni that prevents introspection, and most of us are in reality, the thoughtful, introspective type; it's just not something that is talked about much to new students. Those who come from no particular background, and are starting magic for the first time with Omnimancy...seem to miss out on that important point; as compared to those who come from other systems where introspective time is emphasized more.

Hope that helps, Winter. Excuse the rambliness of this post, and the fact I seem to have went off on a tangent, I'm ill and my mental faculties are not as coherent as I'd prefer. Least, that's my excuse and I'm sticking to it

[Winter]

Hope that helps, Winter. Excuse the rambliness of this post, and the fact I seem to have went off on a tangent, I'm ill and my mental faculties are not as coherent as I'd prefer. Least, that's my excuse and I'm sticking to it

Your post was very good and so was the one of lordart, I like that you guys really put in the time to anwser a question.

Im actually really jealous of you guys, it would be great to have someone to learn from, I don't know anyone who deals whit this in my everyday life and im not aware of any groups/organisations or even events that deal whit magic (or similar things) in my country. So the internet and books are my only sourse, books on this subject are (to me) really disappointing(mostly about goldendawn, ritualistic way of doing things), and on the internet the hardest thing is finding people who are actually knowledgeable on magic. Most community's consists of people like me. So its great you take the time to answer questions, even if you can't go into specifics.

[LordArt]

@Kaylara

Your group sounds like this group 2 years ago when we first got online officially. I've known for quite a while there were other "Omnimancers" out there, sometimes as a group, sometimes as individuals. All of the times when I have caught up to a group it's dispanded for various reasons, or wasn't what I thought. I mean, it's rather obvious that I learned from people that did basic Omnimancy. The name didn't crop up as Omnimancy til about 6-7 years ago or so. I too called what I did energy working because of a lack of a better title. The problem was, energy workering could mean a BUNCH of systems(like reiki and psionics), like paganism could mean any of a bunch of religeons. There was FAR too much in it to distinguish it from something like reiki, psionics or directed energy magic. If your doing what I think your doing, then I would hope you would agree, then the style needs it's own name.
While what is being done in Omnimancy isn't nessarily unique (although I'm sure the details are just because people are individuals), I think this is the first time someone has tried to make it into an outright tradition, with structured learning, for people it hasn't just "come to". Most of the people I came across couldn't explain what they did well enough to train others or simply didn't want to.
But I digress. I think it certainly would be interesting to swap stories and experiences and see how much things overlap and how much doesn't. I presume you have amplifiers and such, study dimentional physics, astral biology, materials tech/Hard Magic, etc.

@StormSeeker
Interspection: Well, while I see your issues about "know thyself", it comes through a little more suttlely during the training. But honestly, on a spiritual level, that's for the individual to find their own path (if they wish it), not for me to find it for them. We are trying to train in the science of magic, not philosophy. Even the one introspection thing your refering does help to know thyself, it's more approached as a means to correct thyself. It's what keeps us not a religeon. When a person is ready to "know thyself" cercomstances will happen that will allow them to. They will also discover it along the way to a lessor extent simply by doing magic, but only experiences in life is really going to show them who they are. I also think all the interaction they get with other members and entities also helps, meaning we aren't exactly a politically correct lot and don't have problems telling other people what their issues are, espeically members. Admittedly, some don't take well to blunt answers, but it leaves no questions and puts everything on the table.

When it comes to research, we encourage niches based on the individual(if they haven't already figuired it out already) and how their mind works, but it's up to them. During that research and swaping is a side way to "know thyself", they just learn it without knowing it. However, if you have a better idea, I'm certainly willing to listen.

[Kaylara]

Hope that helps, Winter. Excuse the rambliness of this post, and the fact I seem to have went off on a tangent, I'm ill and my mental faculties are not as coherent as I'd prefer. Least, that's my excuse and I'm sticking to it

Your post was very good and so was the one of lordart, I like that you guys really put in the time to anwser a question.

Im actually really jealous of you guys, it would be great to have someone to learn from, I don't know anyone who deals whit this in my everyday life and im not aware of any groups/organisations or even events that deal whit magic (or similar things) in my country. So the internet and books are my only sourse, books on this subject are (to me) really disappointing(mostly about goldendawn, ritualistic way of doing things), and on the internet the hardest thing is finding people who are actually knowledgeable on magic. Most community's consists of people like me. So its great you take the time to answer questions, even if you can't go into specifics.

Hoi Winter, Aangenaam!
(Ik ben Nederlands leren.)

Actually Winter, the person who I'm working with who's from Europe is from the Netherlands, and I've noticed a growing pagan community there. I think it's just rather hard to find others there aside from the internet. If you want I can try to put you in contact with a few of them that I know.

[Winter]

Hoi Winter, Aangenaam!
(Ik ben Nederlands leren.)

Actually Winter, the person who I'm working with who's from Europe is from the Netherlands, and I've noticed a growing pagan community there. I think it's just rather hard to find others there aside from the internet. If you want I can try to put you in contact with a few of them that I know.

Leuk dat je nederlands aan het leren ben. Hoor je niet vaak.
Its nice that your learning dutch. You don't hear that often.(translation)

Yes it would be nice if you can put me in contact whit them, but im not a pegan myself, are the people you know working from a pegan tradition?