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Rune Work?

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Rune Work?

Postby Silver_Wolfsong » Sun Sep 18, 2005 12:46 pm

Well hello again omni friends, I've been dabbling around a bit in runes, mostly celtic and some Norwegien, but i've been wondering if omnimancy uses some sort of runic vessel (or just a rune(s)) as part of their "tech"? Or if vessels other than the human body are used? (not meaning sacrificial :P, but i do have a few pesky dogs if needed har har)

Also looking to see peoples views on Runes, and or further sites/books to continue my research. Thx

A discussion piece if you may. Hope to get some fun Insight :D

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sry

Postby Silver_Wolfsong » Mon Sep 19, 2005 2:51 am

Ooops Needed to read more of the site again :idea: , my apologies for wasted views. So I now realize that Runes are used in Omni assuming LordArt that you teach with some of the things you started out with yourself aka Norc Runes, but with a more Omni point of view such as eliminating the physical aspect.

In the "Reality" post you said "Spells existing in objects is VERY old too, and if the object breaks, the energy flows out and the spell breaks too. I've seen that personally. The astral effects the physical and vice versa but admittedly more suttley." well concerning this,

Q) If the physical object breaks and the energy flows out into the astral and physical, does the stronger the spell/magic/tech/etc. affect the visual physical aspect, such as on our plane of existence? Or do you have to be in another plane such as something like astral projection or have some sort of planar sense, in order to see/feel the affect of the broken enchanted object? (that is one big jumbled question, I apologize, but I can’t think of any other way to word it…) Also, if the energy the object releases/creates when it is destroyed is equal there is no physical affect on our plane, but what determines the amount of energy lost? The power of the spell, or the amount of energy used to break the object, or the energy used to break the object combined with the energy of the spell, or is it even more complex than that?

Q) And then what is you removed the physical/concreat object was removed what would be the visual/astral side affects of an energy created talisman/whatnot being destroyed. (This is kinda of making me think of enchantments, like how they are invisible to the naked eye, and how Enchanted Items are visible)

Another thing you stated LordArt "For example, you can move energy far more effeciently across long distances via something that might be akin to a lava tube running through the dimentional fabric itself. Unlike tethers that would draw energy, and have to be significantly strengthed to handle large amounts of energy, the "lava tube" requires little energy (in comparison to maintenance) to a spell tether and can handle VAST more amounts of energy without power bleeding really."

Q) What is this "Lava Tube" is it something like the idea in psionics where you can siphon energy from a source other than your body? Or is this more of a constant thing? And what are some of the side effects of power bleeding? And if this form of energy gathering is low maintinence couldn't you essentialy just siphon some of the energy gained from the "lava tube" back to maintain it? (perpetual energy in other words?)

Yet again another thing I took note of from you LordArt "enochian angels/demons. They would draw physically or astrally a series of runes to open a gateway between where they were to where they were going (so they could talk with the entity in question). An omni would simply walk through the realm membranes to get there(astrally)."

Q) How do you sense these other Realitys? Does it require a hightened magical sence in order to sense them, or can anyone do it?


Thank You for your time if you respond, much obliged.

James
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Postby LordArt » Tue Sep 27, 2005 3:26 pm

Sorry about the delay in the response. You have a lot of questions, and I had to wait til I had the time to actually answer them all.

To answer your question about the first post, runes in Omni (and even when I used nortic runes) were never vessels (although I can see using nortic runes a different way than I did to use them as such). Runes in omni normally represent macro/symbolic representations of a spell, and normally what it takes to make the spell work. Normally, it's common that if you look into how the spell/tech functions, then you compare it to the rune, you understand how the rune ends up representing the general energy flow. But you normally only really understand that after you know the nature/effect/construction of the spell in question, because the rune is SO abstract from the spell itself. The rune is just meant as a symbol for the mind to understand you mean something more complex. A focus or mental trigger if you will. One of my students (now head of OmniNorth) use to draw circuit diagrams of spells. Now THAT was pretty funky. (And no he doesn't do electronics or engineering). We stopped using runes because with online teaching it wasn't practical at all. And even in physical teaching, the spells became so complex that runes got too unwieldy to use, and wasn't really necessary anymore. The newer teaching methods are FAR more effecient and effective. However, I feel something was lost in not doing runes anymore. Not in the ability to cast it, but in the concious knowledge of the details of how certain things work for the next generation of students. But just because I'm detailed oriented, doesn't mean other people are, so while I care, most others don't. Without HAVING to know how the runic version worked to learn something, the effort to remember such details aren't there. But I digress, as I do.

1) When a spell is put into an object, the passive command is for the energy to follow and be linked to that single object (and most of the time assumes it's shape in the astral). When that object breaks, the spell doesn't know what to do because now it has two (or more) seperate things to follow let alone being seperated. So litterially, the act of breaking something shatters the spell, because the spell needs all of it's parts to function and those functional parts just got seperated. Most people when they put a spell into an object, mentally see the object as a containment vessel. We all know what happens when a containment vessel breaks, so the spell follows suit and the outer part that kept the "guts" of the spell in place stays, but the inner parts just dump out like it's been eviserated. Magic LOVES preconceived notions because you put those preconceptions INTO a spell weither you know it or not. It fills in the gaps that the magic needs to function that you didn't implicitely specify. So an object breaking doesn't HAVE to break a spell, but the spell must be set up so that situation is handled if it does, and most people don't bother to think of such senerios (let alone compensate) in their spell designs.
As far as seeing the energy leak out, you need magical senses to sense the energy in the first place, let alone seeing it leak out. In certain cases, physical touch can sense the energy (or lack there of), but in reality, it has nothing to do with your physical senses but an overlay of your magical ones. (Meaning, if you felt heat from an object like it was warm, in most cases if you put a thermometer to it, it's not any degree difference than the rest of the room, but you FEEL it because of your magic senses). There can always be specific exceptions to any of the above, but the above is the general rule. I have not seen differences between more highy powered spells versus low level ones produce an effect on the physical simply because it broke. Can a big spell become visually obvious, I would say the possibility exists if for nothing else than a magical sense overlay showing something major just happened. Astral projection would see all of this anyways, obviously. When a spell breaks, it doesn't "create" energy. When an object is destroyed, the amount of energy that leaks out is equal to the amount of energy that it was containing at the time. The main guts fall out, and then the containment part will fade because nothing is powering it over time. (I think I got all your questions in there).

2) I tried to read your second question and I just can't translate it. I know sometimes my stuff gets bad, but I really don't know what your asking. Sorry. Repeat/rephrase the question if you would.

3) The "lava tube" that is referred to is an advanced technique that wouldn't translate any better than what I have there. Kind of like trying to explain to an 1800s era general why modern tanks have ceramic armor vs iron plate. The technologies involved and what it takes to do it is so night and day that without a suffecient point of reference to build the explaination from, it can't be done. Now the act of using external power is not only a psion thing BTW. :) What the psions do (if they do it since most psions I know don't like external energy) is either a direct connection (ie. manuelly pulling energy) or using a "standard" tether, like what is discussed in the public documents section of this site. The lava tube thing is simular in concept or end effect/use, but the method/how is DRASTICALLY different. In this case, a psion (or a lower level omni) would use energy(ie. tether/hose) to contain energy to move said energy from point A to point B. The lava tube is something different. I don't understand what you mean by "a constant thing". To me, tethers and the like are constant until you take them down, but again, I'm not a psion so you may mean something else. From the sounds of it (correct me if I'm wrong), your saying the psion technique is simply to use the external energy for the initial spell creation vs creation & maintence. If that were the case, then the psion wouldn't have it constant, because they would get rid of it as soon as the spell was created. An omni would leave it up til the spell was finished it's objective. As far as the side effects of power bleeding, well all that really means is that part of the power that is flowing down the energy tube is POWERING the tube itself, which means not all the energy that entered the tube at the source reaches the destination. Bleeding can also occur if there is a hole or break in the tether, or if the tether is trying to move more energy than it can handle, so it's sprouting leaks along the way. No energy is GAINED from the lava tube, so you couldn't do a perpertual energy source as such. I don't understand why you thought the lava tube GAINED/created energy in the first place. Perhaps because you didn't understand the issue of power bleeding in the above example.

4) Yes it requires magical senses, one can debate if one would consider it "heightened" but I guess it's a matter of perspective. And yes, anyone can do it. The better your senses are, the better you notice it of course, but that's true of anything. I use to do it when I first started magic, so I see no reason why anyone with the proper approach can't do it. With new students to mental projection (astral travel) I'll initially do a doorway concept for them, since the idea of going between realms is kinda weird for most people to wrap their minds around at first. However, once they've been other places, it's far easier to show them the inbetween places and understand what is meant by going through the membranes when they no longer use the doors to get places.

I think I got them all (except question two...sorry). I hope that helped!

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Postby oath » Mon Jul 31, 2006 4:07 pm

LordArt wrote:
To answer your question about the first post, runes in Omni (and even when I used nortic runes) were never vessels (although I can see using nortic runes a different way than I did to use them as such). Runes in omni normally represent macro/symbolic representations of a spell, and normally what it takes to make the spell work. Normally, it's common that if you look into how the spell/tech functions, then you compare it to the rune, you understand how the rune ends up representing the general energy flow. But you normally only really understand that after you know the nature/effect/construction of the spell in question, because the rune is SO abstract from the spell itself. The rune is just meant as a symbol for the mind to understand you mean something more complex. A focus or mental trigger if you will. One of my students (now head of OmniNorth) use to draw circuit diagrams of spells. Now THAT was pretty funky. (And no he doesn't do electronics or engineering). We stopped using runes because with online teaching it wasn't practical at all. And even in physical teaching, the spells became so complex that runes got too unwieldy to use, and wasn't really necessary anymore. The newer teaching methods are FAR more effecient and effective. However, I feel something was lost in not doing runes anymore. Not in the ability to cast it, but in the concious knowledge of the details of how certain things work for the next generation of students. But just because I'm detailed oriented, doesn't mean other people are, so while I care, most others don't. Without HAVING to know how the runic version worked to learn something, the effort to remember such details aren't there. But I digress, as I do.


Ive been thinking about this idea for quite a while, saying im thinking of the same thing you are, and have thought that such an idea or spell would be useful when invoked on behalf of another larger and more complex spell that you wanted to understand, perhaps if the original spell had gone awry. All theoretical and full of dreamy ideas of what magic might become someday but I can certainly see that perhaps one would sometimes need such a spell laid out in detail in order to find a problem and fix it or to just study and learn as much as one could about the spell. Am I making sense or just being foolish?


Also another idea, coulnt you put a spell into an object such as a box in which the spell would be initiated upon being opened for example, so that you could store this object and use it when needed or even give it away as a gift to someone?

Again I apologize if I am being foolish, I am just bursting with ideas though and all of these seem plausible based on my understandings.
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Postby LordArt » Tue Aug 01, 2006 10:57 am

Oath wrote:...I can certainly see that perhaps one would sometimes need such a spell laid out in detail in order to find a problem and fix it or to just study and learn as much as one could about the spell.


It can be useful if you know what your looking at (which is obvious). However, the comlexity and speed of understanding makes it prohibitive. What is easier to find something in? A hard text book, or if the contents of the text book are in a computer and simply do a search? Looking at scematics is neet to be sure, but isn't as practical as keeping a live functioning version (or a simulated one). Because then you can see the energy flow, you can see the individual systems, etc. You can run the spell in "test mode" and see perhaps what is wrong. Is the field wrong, is the power not going where it's supposed to, or too little (or too much). It's easier to understand it in live form then a diagram. Or a least, that is what we have found.

Also another idea, coulnt you put a spell into an object such as a box in which the spell would be initiated upon being opened for example, so that you could store this object and use it when needed or even give it away as a gift to someone?


Yes. In such a case your doing a talisman effect, or in Omni we do what is called capsule spells(Which don't require a physical object, but you can attach it to one if you wanted). Setting triggers for such things are rather easy, as I'm sure you know. There are many ways to do such.
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Postby oath » Tue Aug 01, 2006 2:19 pm

Let me describe this further in more detail, all theoretically speaking of course.

Earlier, I tried to imbue or cast magic upon my journal so that when another person tried to read it, they would not understand it, kinda like it being all blurry or invisible to them. Now lets say someone got enough power and ability to go one step further with that and decided to cast such a spell upon an object or a person. What would happen? especially if it was a person?! People might be forgetting that person ever existed in the first place, it could even go as far as documents pertaining to that person could become invisible as well. So how would anyone know that the person ever existed? Whats worse what if the only person that did know what has happened, perhaps the one who originally cast the spell somehow made a mistake, only they didnt know what the mistake was, so how would they find out ? Wouldnt you need to devise another seperate and smaller mimic type spell to replicate itself to the original invisible spell so that you could then study the replicator and perhaps find out what went wrong with it?

edit: nvm I didnt originally understand what you were saying, Ill leave this up though just for the sake of the theory and perhaps getting a reply to the idea.
A psion practices the branch of magic called psi, a kabbalist practices from the kabbalah, and a buddhist strives for enlightenment. A Wizard however endeavors to know, understand, and master all magic, religion, and thought.
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