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Senses and the physical

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Senses and the physical

Postby Obsidian » Wed Jul 13, 2005 6:28 am

Senses. Projecting. Looking at people.

We all know it's possible to project to someone and see their astral body. It's possible to look back in time, to see their astral body, or an astral event, that happened <time> ago.

But is it possible for the same thing to transfer to the physical? Can we project, and look at the physical person? Are we able to look back to things that happened days ago, weeks ago, years ago?

Example:
The average person my age seems to enjoy going out and getting so drunk that they can't remember what they did. Usually, it's all good and 'just a bit of fun'. Sometimes, nasty rumours start up.
If the person were able to look back into the party, to see what they did, or what happened, to see the truth in <event>... They'd at least be able to answer for themselves (or their bf/gf)...

I can understand that this would be... difficult... to develop. But it seems quite practical.

How would you go about developing this? Would it be a twist on classic sensing/MP, or is there a lot more to it?

Is it even possible?
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Postby FireEssence » Wed Jul 13, 2005 6:39 pm

Retrocognition but controlled so that you "go back" to a specific point in time and space? Makes sense to me.

Developing it to that point may or may not be difficult but if people can actively and passively precognitively experience/see/etc. events (or at least if it's not too often disbelieved in most magical/psychical groups I've been around) than why not the opposite? Seems like it'd just be a matter of developing a technique and then developing the ability to where it's at a worthwhile degree of accuracy.

*shrug*

EDIT: When I was in the shower I remembered this, might be of help. Try practicing what multiple psions call "remote presence" or just mess about with clairvoyance and try and work it around to fit time-space parameters once you get good at doing it in the present?

Also, at least in my own experiences, the few times I've truly MPed [as best as I know] if it was to a physical location or that locations astral 'mirror', I was able to pick up on details about the [physical] surroundings. So maybe try and practice picking up physical details in that manner first? (Assuming I wasn't doing something other than MPing and that's what resulted in the experiences)
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Postby LordArt » Thu Jul 14, 2005 9:17 am

Obsidian wrote:Can we project, and look at the physical person? Are we able to look back to things that happened days ago, weeks ago, years ago?
...
How would you go about developing this? Would it be a twist on classic sensing/MP, or is there a lot more to it?

Is it even possible?


Anything is possible with practice and the right direction. You are certainly able to look back into history (both past and future history). The problem is what it always have been. Symbolism. Although in this case it gets far more complicated with looking into the physical. If your just trying to see what someone was doing, then that's easy because it's reflected into the astral, as well as what is immediately around them. Looking at things where people WEREN'T around, that gets MUCH harder.

Unfortunately, if it were so easy to look into the physical, no mage would ever pay to go see a movie again! :) However, you should be able to get gists of what happened easily enough, and even details with practice of what people did and what they interacted with as far as the examples of use you gave. But it's not going to be like putting a camera into the mix with a microphone. Perhaps it can be for some, but not without really practiced senses for such a thing. Technically "Remote Viewing" is all about this subject, so you might want to look into that.
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Postby StormSeeker » Thu Jul 14, 2005 4:06 pm

Since I seem to be the current "ex" psion kicking around...

Remote Viewing definitely won't give the "microphone + camera mix" either. Not the "Coordinate/Controlled RV" version anyway. CRV is not just "looking" or "sensing" something (common misconception.) It's designed to work by protocols and multiple steps (anywhere between 3 and 7, sometimes 9), and though very good CRVers will often glean "snippets" of scenes and so forth of what happened at a particular target location, the problem is _still_ symbolism.

In that respect, you might as well swap out "remote wiewer" with "mage" in Arthur's analogy, it won't be too different :}

And a properly executed "session" will last anywhere between 45 minutes and 1 1/2 hours, _because_ it's not just a case of "looking back" with RV (the protocols are used to help sort the intake of information into a discernable form and to enable the person to draw accurate conclusions.)

An example of how CRV works: awhile ago on another site's chat, I was asked to do some CRV for skeptics in the channel. Each person was going to place an object near them or pick one from their room at random and assign a set of coordinates to it. In example A, I picked up (almost instaneously): cold, reflects light, shiny, (probably made of metal) and some other small details too. And for some reason my mind then made the "jump" that it was a fork I was "seeing" and in my hazy vision I began to see a metal fork on the table. And sure enough, it was. :)

Another person had a photograph of an ocean and cliffside with a lighthouse adorning the edge of the cliff, which I called correctly. (I was having a good day) =)

You might count that as a hit (and I sure would), but if I were training as a CRVer, my head would have been bopped repeatedly for stopping at that point. It wouldn't have mattered had I claimed adamantly: "but I knew it was a fork." That's not what CRV is about; CRV isn't considered by the officials to be a psychic skill. (One reason why I invested a couple of years learning CRV but don't stick to it's strict regime unless the situation calls for it.)

But that's generally how remote viewing could be said to work. The viewer sits down and picks up stage 1 data, and stage 2 data (as I did), but writes them down, and then goes on to work through the rest of the steps in the protocols, finally arriving at an accurate answer (hopefully!)

Sometimes the mind makes "jumps" as it did in my example, but in "official" RV, you're supposed to write that off as AOL (analytical overlay) and keep going, just gleaning information. Which at a further step along the way, you will then compare to the more indepth info you've gleaned and see if you can figure out what you're looking at. Anything that is "seen" in that sort of context, is written off as AOL and attention is not paid to it because of the tendency for that sort of thing to be "filler" given by the mind.

In CRV, the emphasis is on the perceiving and collation of basic data, gradually working one's way up the protocol ladder, because the mind has a habit of perceiving A, B, and C and suddenly figuring: ohh, she's looking at X. So it's got to be X. And images/thoughts of X flood your mind.

Essentially, we draw conclusions. Sometimes correct conclusions, (but the devisers of CRV found that these conclusions tended to be more incorrect than they wanted, amongst observed "psychics.") The RV protocols were designed to help combat the person's tendency to stop after the mind has drawn conclusions or lose their train of thought/focus. "Official" CRV also includes ideograms and drawings at multiple stages too.

Unfortunately I took one look at Remote Viewing (the official way of performing it) and thought: I see why the protocols are needed, but if I'm on a roll here I don't see why I need to use them. So I often don't. But at that point, without using protocols, I'm not technically remote viewing :)

However, if someone wants a higher chance of obtaining the correct answer or correct details, RV protocols definitely do appear to work for what they were designed for.

The other more well known version of RV is Extended Remote Viewing (which I'm sure you've heard me mention at some point since a "rough" version of it is what I trained in for a few years.) That tends to involve an out of body experience, and thus accordingly, the visuals and sensory data can seem and be, much more impactive and detailed. Again though, you aren't going to see things as you would if you sat down and watched a movie at the cinema. Not without very good toned senses in that direction or a lot of practice. I will say though in experience, it's possible to develop the skill to that point (but a lot of it comes down to symbolism as well as having the practice and senses and experience.)

(ERV also involves protocols - a different set to the typical CRV set - and often a trance state or ganzfeld is utilized to put the viewer into the right mindset.)

One important point to note though: no matter how clear the details you perceive are, or how much detail you perceive, there is always going to be the problem of interpreting it. Whether you're remote viewing or sensing/looking. It's your symbolism you're perceiving things by, which is highly personal to you. And occasionally confusing, so things do get misinterpreted, even amongst the more seasoned remote viewers and mages and psychics. Which is why they invented CRV and it's protocols in the first place :)

Edit: Fire_Essence:- IME, "Remote Presence" tends to either involve: mental, partial or full emersion. Half the people I've seen RP are simply mentally projecting but use a different term to describe it. The rest are going 'more' out of body and are projecting along the lines of partial or even full emersion. So yep, MPing or whatever would be a valid method of getting to your target; then you just have to figure out how to "look back."
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Postby Obsidian » Wed Jul 20, 2005 8:04 am

Please forgive the lateness of my reply.

Seems it is indeed quite possible to look back 'in time'. And easier when people are involved. Makes sense *nods*

All comes down to understanding what you're seeing, huh. Where people are involved, it's the same basic mechanism as looking astrally, you just need to be able to understand what you're physically seeing... Symbolism.

*shakes his fist at symbolism* How can we by-pass you!

I don't think CRV is what I was looking for in this case, though thanks for the information, Storm. This actually reminds me to get more information on the Ganzfeld state...

Thanks for all three responses :) More reason to develop the old senses *nods*
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Postby StormSeeker » Thu Jul 21, 2005 7:49 pm

Hrrm, I still owe you those articles on Ganzfeld that I promised you, don't I. I'll send them once I'm done writing this post :P Sorry for the delay.

I don't think CRV is what you're looking for either, although I don't think it would be impossible to modify the protocols and procedure to yield similar to what you're seeking. A modded version of ERV combined with Ganzfeld and extensive practice within each, along the lines of what I did, might be a more valid avenue though; same with regular old projection and lots of practice and experience interpreting symbolism.

All three involve the development of the knowledge and understanding of your own symbolism though. So I suppose pick one and stick with it for a long time; lots of practice tends to pay off *nod*
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