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Concerning Astral Senses

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Concerning Astral Senses

Postby entity » Wed Sep 22, 2010 9:49 pm

how extensive does Omnimancy go into developing the astral senses, as we know it in the western world, it's yoga and ritual. But I sense that omnimancy does it a different way. Without telling us outsiders the secrets, can you tell me a little about the way it works


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Postby LordArt » Wed Sep 22, 2010 10:10 pm

If you read the Omni Overview (look at the bottom of the page), you'll see that astral senses (ie magical senses) are a primary importance to Omnimancers. If you can't see what you are doing, you have a harder time figuring out what you are doing. We teach magical senses from day one and it's used for just about everything we do(I honestly can't think of anything we don't use them for to one degree or another). Astral Senses and magical senses are the same from our perspective.

Such senses are natural, we just use several techniques for the student to learn how to use them. Eventually they become almost as common place as your normal physical senses. Since the more you use them, the better you get with them, we obviously encourage practice. But mostly it isn't a matter of developing senses but understanding your own symbology so you can understand what you are seeing. Sensing whatever doesn't help if you no clue what you are looking at. So obviously part of the training is showing what things are. Experience will then tell you if you come across it again what it is, and how to handle it. This includes everything from spells to entities to other phenomenon.

I'm not sure if that answered your question or not.
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Postby entity » Wed Sep 22, 2010 10:20 pm

LordArt,

Yes, you answered my question. and I apologize to everyone that Im asking so many questions. But trust me, I've tried to go to the astral realm, I've tried everything, even buying robert bruce. that didnt work either. I must have a thick skull, or im ADHD or something.
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Postby LordArt » Thu Sep 23, 2010 1:38 am

We teach mental projection versus full immersion projection. Both are astral projection, but it's easier for us to teach mental projection than the classical full immersion projection that you see from most sources. The latter being rather hit or miss with nothing in-between. (And it can be a bitch to get that hit, as you well know by your comment!) The former needing a good bit of outside confirmation to get confident in it, but it's far easier to get the hang of it even though it's hard at first to maintain the concentration required. Each has their own benefits and weaknesses. But for our purposes, mental projection works nicely.

Full immersion projection your normal 5 senses from your body are shut off, and your astral senses are directly remapped to those so you feel like you are THERE. Ie. a lucid dream effectively. Once there, it can be hard to think logically (at least in comparison to being awake). But it doesn't require any concentration to maintain there. There is a big problem that you simply might just fall asleep completely and that kinda buzz kills your run. But there is nothing like the "I'm there" experience.

Mental projection is like guided day dreaming. You still feel your normal 5 physical senses, and all your astral senses are in your mind's eye, although depending on what you are doing, some can try to overlap your normal 5 senses. It has the advantage that you keep your wits about you, can be done anywhere (and once you are really good at it, you can do it while doing something else, like driving, but I wouldn't recommend that, but I've done it quite a few times at this point). The drawbacks are you need to mentally keep yourself out there to keep yourself out there. You don't have the same level of "I'm there" like you do with full immersion. Especially starting out, one expects a LOT more like the former, which hampers progress in it. You eventually learn to tune it in so while it still isn't as "I'm there" it gets you 80% of that level depending on what you are doing. For the way Omni works, it meshes quite well, although for researching certain things, full immersion would be better. The good news is, you can pop out and in instantaneously, although to be fair, once you get good at full immersion, you can do the same on that end too.
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Postby entity » Thu Sep 23, 2010 11:45 am

sounds like no yoga involved. good.

The western culture of our hemisphere says that we approach the spirits having given ourselves the bannisnhings the consecrations, and the protection before we go and fraternize with the spirits. I would say Omnimancy builds up the energies first, and then students project themselves into the astral mapping out the location of finding the desired spirit/entity, and then knocking at their door, and they tell you some information an then you return back to your consciousness. so do students protect themselves in the banishing/consecration way? or Do the spirits repect and honor us without harm as we go into the astral world. Becuase i guess you can do anything you want there, like build a house, a temple, and do the invocation of the bornless ritual there, and it's all good. I would feel like Kefka Off of Final Fantasy 6 where he took the espers and made himself a god in their world. ok, that was a bad analogy.
but you get what im saying
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Postby 4min33sec » Thu Sep 23, 2010 11:50 am

You're kind of overcomplicating things, still. I mean, do you do a bunch of rituals before you go to the grocery store for eggs and milk? No, you just go do it.

Going on an astral field trip for Omnis, as far as I've seen, is pretty much the same as that. We just do it. I haven't done a single ritual since I joined, although I have practiced basic skills.

This is, of course, not to say that some other Omnis don't do all sorts of rituals, but it wouldn't be part of Omni per se, just something they want to do.
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Postby LordArt » Thu Sep 23, 2010 12:39 pm

No, no yoga involved. I'm not that flexable anyways. :P

As far as the rest of it, 4min33sec is correct, you are over complicating what we do. We have a view of simplicity. Do what is needed but no more. There are NO rituals done in an Omni setting ever. So for astral field trips (as we call them when a group of us goes together), the normal defenses (protection spells) people have are normally quite sufficient. We teach that early on. If I know we are going into a more hostile environment (because it's THAT kind of field trip), then I'll protect them with my level of stuff and outfit them accordingly, and they'll typically put their own defenses on top so they can see how their own stuff would fair if it was just their own things only in the first place. I put my stuff there so my students are always safe, I don't play around with that. But I do feel they should get experience in more hostile environments so they know how to handle it on their own without the protections of the bigger omnis/group. Hopefully they'll never need it, but they should be able to handle themselves if a spirit(s) steps up and wants a piece of them, since that can possibly happen.

So certainly no banishings or consecrations. Do the spirits respect the individuals/group? Depends on the spirit. Some are quite happy to see us and act accordingly. Sometimes we are out to get them because they transgressed, so they aren't as happy to see us needless to say. It all depends on what the purpose of the outting is. (It can be like the wild west out there...Some civilized places, and some not) Sometimes we go on fieldtrips to where a particular diety lives so I can introduce a new Omni to the one they worship (if they are religious) so they can bypass all the inbetween dogma and propaganda (a personal pet peeve of mine). The rest will sometimes go with, just to see what it's like. We teach "astral politics" so they know how to act out there and what is appropriate to do and not to do, etc. We also teach them how to be able to judge the power of who they are interacting with, so they know if they are out of their league or not.

So as you can see, our methods are very different than the "standard" ways of doing things, but it has served us quite well.
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Postby 4min33sec » Thu Sep 23, 2010 4:43 pm

Here's an example that might clear things up. Are you familiar with the Lesser Banishing Ritual of the Pentagram? Takes a couple of minutes to do once you've practiced it. Well, we can achieve the same effect in less than a second without any practice needed. That's the difference between Omnimancy and other occult traditions.
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Postby entity » Thu Sep 23, 2010 8:55 pm

Well, we can achieve the same effect in less than a second without any practice needed. That's the difference between Omnimancy and other occult traditions.



yes i am familiar with the lbrp. and wow. im anxious to join. too bad i cant help u guys with any thing. because you all are busy with magical endeavours. and crucible coming up. you got me a little excited about this.
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Postby LordArt » Fri Sep 24, 2010 11:24 am

4min33sec wrote:Here's an example that might clear things up. Are you familiar with the Lesser Banishing Ritual of the Pentagram? Takes a couple of minutes to do once you've practiced it. Well, we can achieve the same effect in less than a second without any practice needed. That's the difference between Omnimancy and other occult traditions.


I think that should be clarified. There is practice needed, but not much in comparison. Meaning, you are shown the spell, you copy it and then you try it out. Most people get the copy right the first time out, but some don't and it takes them a few more tries sometimes with more direct coaching (They get tested on it later regardless). The how it works and the rest takes longer, but we seperate the academics from the practical, but we do the academics first which doesn't take long.

The spell in question I've given to certain pagan friends of mine that were lementing over how long it would take them to purify a newly store bought atheme. So I showed them a spell that would do it in a few seconds. It has lots of uses besides cleaning, but I'm not going to get into that here.
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Postby entity » Fri Sep 24, 2010 6:37 pm

Yeah, the Dion Fortune/golden dawn method in seconds! But it makes sense if energy is all around us. For instance, i try to banish all the time, in my younger days, i've offended some people, especially ex girlfriends. And constantly I always want to keep myself warded of negative energies. Because I know for a fact If I Lax, then anything can cling on to me, since were all susceptible to psychic, or negative spiritual attack.


Now do some spirits we meet in the astral as, the website said some are "heads of state." Im sure some spirits in the astral do effect presidential and worldwide changes. Im sure the spirits there are interesting.

Now with sigils, are they still useful in Omnimancy once going into the astral?
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Postby Thill » Sun Sep 26, 2010 7:33 pm

LordArt,

Have you come across the theory about full immersion astral projection that when we do succeed in projecting we actually split into 2 different "selfs" , each one with their own separate mind and actions ?

So the reason we do not acknowledge the fact that we went out of body so to speak (we think we fell asleep trying , etc) , even thou we had the symptoms of projection , is that our memories of the projected self are overwritten by the "conscious" dreaming self that has been left behind , so the real trick is to force the projected selfs memories to integrate instead of the physical ones .

If You have heard about this , would You be so kind and give Your opinion on this matter ?

If You have a different view on this concept , and this is not secret Omni knowledge , would You kindly share :) ?
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Postby LordArt » Mon Sep 27, 2010 11:11 am

entity wrote:Now do some spirits we meet in the astral as, the website said some are "heads of state." Im sure some spirits in the astral do effect presidential and worldwide changes. Im sure the spirits there are interesting.


Umm, what was the question in there?

Now with sigils, are they still useful in Omnimancy once going into the astral?


Sigils for spell work or sigils for identification of entities? If you mean sigils in the sense of "I call upon the power of X", yes, you could still do that. Omnimancy doesn't do that, because we don't need to. Our power doesn't come from entities, and the creation of spells or their effects don't come from them either. Can you ask them how to do X, yes, much like you might ask someone how to make a tea pot or fish or whatever. And once you know, you never have to ask again, since you are just doing it yourself. I'm not sure if that answered your question or not.

Thill wrote:Have you come across the theory about full immersion astral projection that when we do succeed in projecting we actually split into 2 different "selfs" , each one with their own separate mind and actions ?


Well, you always have your inner, but I don't think you mean that. And no, I've never heard of the theory you mentioned. One falls asleep so easily because one has to typically REALLY relax in most cases to do full immersion projection. And when you are sleeping, you are normally projecting anyways, so it's a razor thin difference between full immersion and simply sleeping and it's too easy to cross that line.

As to why we don't remember what happens when we sleep, I think that has to do with the nature of dreams. People who do full immersion in Omni do quite well remember what happened, so I don't think there is any overwriting or what have you. Lucid dreaming is full immersion projection for all practical purposes and people remember that well enough.
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Postby Obsidian » Tue Sep 28, 2010 12:09 am

...much like you might ask someone how to make a tea pot or fish or whatever..


We can learn to make fish?!

</silliness>

Without getting too off-topic, the concept of dreams/lucid dreams/full immersion has piqued my interested.

I remember my dreams extremely vividly. To the point where, if they weren't so outlandish and bizarre I would (and have in the past) have genuine trouble differentiating them from reality. To my knowledge however, I've never had a 'lucid' dream. I'll live in the dream, be thinking and feeling (although not always as 'me'), but not aware that it 'is' a dream.

So I guess I'm asking something to the general effect of what would be going on to have such an intense experience? Am I projecting, remembering my projection, what else could it? I've always been curious.

If Full Immersion Projection remaps our astral senses to be fit over our physical senses, we would experience the astral in much the same way we experience our physical plane, yes? But given the other abilities we can develop it would be like 'physical +1', which could explain the outlandishness of some dreams?

And when we sleep and project, are we projecting to the astral or a subset of it? I've had a few things mentioned to me in passing but nothing that was explained in any concrete details.

It's always been a big area of interest for me given the variety and intensity I experience, often remembering hours of dreams a night that are just as 'real' as my memories of the day before. I've been led to believe that isn't exactly a common thing and wondered why it would happen to me/some and not others.
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