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forging kabbalah and voodoo with omnimancy

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forging kabbalah and voodoo with omnimancy

Postby entity » Tue Sep 21, 2010 10:18 am

hi folks

has there been any research projects for using the tree of life kabbalah and or voodoo with omnimancy?


thanks
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Re: forging kabbalah and voodoo with omnimancy

Postby LordArt » Tue Sep 21, 2010 9:42 pm

entity wrote:has there been any research projects for using the tree of life kabbalah and or voodoo with omnimancy?


Short answer: no

Longer Answer: There isn't much of a point. The world view, and the methods between something like kabbalah or voodoo to do magic is oil and water to the methods of how Omnimancy does what it does.

Would it make sense to use Omni methods to enhance Kabbalah and Voodoo? Yes. But it wouldn't work the other way around. Omnimancy by definition is a meta-magic system, so it's designed to affect and enhance magic (it's own or otherwise). Omnimancy doesn't use spirits (be them deities or elementals or whatever. Or even transcendental concepts.) to do magic at all, hence the incompatibility. The philosophy is, why do a ritual to talk to a spirit if you can just "pop out" in an instant and talk to them. Why ask a spirit to do something, when you can just do it yourself just as effectively (or watch them do it if one doesn't know how and copy what they do so you never have to ask again) without worrying about offerings or deal making.

Omnimancy is NOT a spiritual system, nor is it classically spiritually fulfilling. That isn't it's purpose. So doing Kabbalah and voodoo for spiritual ends makes sense and Omnimancy may or may not be able to help there.

There is a student that belongs to the OSOGD (Open Source Order of the Golden Dawn) that might be able to shed her perspective on your query. I have given mine.
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Postby entity » Wed Sep 22, 2010 1:05 am

Lord Art


Interesting, I would love to her her perspective, Interesting, a meta magic of scientific methods! Man, it's a wonder they dont invite you to a more open minded university like, Leiden University in The Netherlands, or Euro-centric Academia. This is very well researched if you can take a uni-magical effect to theres no middleman. But i know the scentific community is ol boys network, and W. Conserative, but thats a whole other subject.

so much for aladdins' lamp.

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Postby 4min33sec » Wed Sep 22, 2010 1:39 am

I have to respectfully disagree with Arthur; I've found power to be very spiritually fulfilling. :-D
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Postby LordArt » Wed Sep 22, 2010 11:44 am

entity wrote:Man, it's a wonder they dont invite you to a more open minded university like, Leiden University in The Netherlands, or Euro-centric Academia. This is very well researched if you can take a uni-magical effect to theres no middleman. But i know the scentific community is ol boys network, and W. Conserative, but thats a whole other subject.


The magical community is the ol boys network too, don't kid yourself. If I was doing a derivation off of Crowley or something, I would be in a different boat, but since Omnimancy is radically different than "mainstream" magical systems (at least the Western traditions which is mostly Golden Dawn derivations), most people have a very hard time wrapping their minds around it and therefore it becomes easier to dismiss it than spend the effort to understand it.

I've been at this fight for going on 20 years, and while Omnimancy has gained some traction in recent years, it is still quite unknown in the larger community. I've made great in-roads in the local community and to a lesser extent more national/international leaders, but not enough so far to be of interest to the universities you've mentioned. I've lectured quite a few times at Rutgers, but that is local. Perhaps in another 10+ years, but thanks for the complement.

To the extent of lecturing, since last year, I've been trying to do more high-end lectures so people can understand them. Last year's Crucible lecture was on Astral Biology. This year's lecture is on Multi-Dimensional Physics. The problem is, most of the information is only relavant to Omnimancers, so I try to go over things that have a good chance of being more universally adapted. But only time will tell how that works out.

4min33sec wrote:I have to respectfully disagree with Arthur; I've found power to be very spiritually fulfilling. :D


Yeah, you're not the only one in Omni that has told me that was their perspective. :) I enjoy it, but I'm not sure I would call it spiritually fulfilling for me.
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Postby entity » Wed Sep 22, 2010 12:59 pm

Well the reason why i asked the topic forum question was, I've been to several voodoo communites. And I went to these places, and the physical magick being done is crazy, I've seen people disappear before my eyes, and on youtube you can see straw huts moving on it's on in ceremony. That took place in Benin, Africa. But I've seen people walk through walls, and just so some movie quality stuff. I thought I was watching the Fantastic 4 or the X-Men or something when I saw it. But it's interesting how Omnimancy can enhance the spell, or the working being done.

What are your thoughts on Omnimancers doing the magick that seems like parlor tricks, like disappearing infront of the naked eye, and ending up somewhere else on the planet? I know this sounds SCI FI, but still, I know what I saw.

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Postby 4min33sec » Wed Sep 22, 2010 2:44 pm

Are you certain that it was physical magic that you saw, and not "just" a "magical magic trick," so to speak? I studied Afro-Caribbean religions a bit in college, and they are definitely part of Al's sphere of influence, so even without looking with my magical senses, I would be immediately suspicious of any effects I thought I saw.
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Postby entity » Wed Sep 22, 2010 3:59 pm

well I do know this, The boy from Benin who did those "magic magical tricks"claims that besieged one of the spirits, and the spirit told him that he had to sacrifice something dear to him, so he was foolish enough to sacrifice. And he claims the spirit taught him how to do those things.

Also, it seems that some people do this for physical gain, riches, power, occult knowledge. I heard of a women sacrificing her womb to be barren so that she can climb the corporate ladder. she was satisfied as CFO of the company.

Ive done some studying about the afro-carribbean religions, and find that they believe that gods are in near by lakes. For instance, say if felt you were lying to me, and I confront you about it, I can call you out on the nearest god on the nearby lake, and take an egg and smash it between us. in time, if you really were lying, From what I read, the spirit nearby in the lake shall personally make you suffer from the lie being told.

With kabbalah, the reason why i asked that is I wanted the Omnimancers view on when Aleister Crowley was in his death bed, the story goes, " the doctor took him off morphine, and Crowley told him. If you take me off of morphine, I will die and when I die, I swear upon the great spirit Tapthartharath, that you will join me. Crowley died, and in 24 hours the Doctor died of natural causes."

This sounds like an Ol Boy network story, but the Good ol boys truly Believe in the tree of life and each sphere with spiritual contact can really do those things I said above. So, this all sounds like Narnia, but what is the scientific view on this.
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Postby 4min33sec » Wed Sep 22, 2010 4:20 pm

I have never heard that story about Crowley. Based on what I know of the guy, it sounds a little too solemn to be true, but ultimately I don't care...

As far as the Afro-Caribbean religions believing that gods are in or near lakes, well, first of all, they're not gods. They're lwa, or orishas, or something like that: spirits. Remember that these spirits are all themselves Roman Catholics; the practitioners and the spirits would be very quick to tell you that no, they are not gods, although there are at least a couple spirits I can think of who might pretend to be gods if they thought they could have fun fucking with you.

Second, only some of them are associated with water. Others, such as Shango, are associated with storms. Still others, such as Ghede, aren't necessarily associated with any particular location.
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Postby LordArt » Wed Sep 22, 2010 5:03 pm

entity wrote:What are your thoughts on Omnimancers doing the magick that seems like parlor tricks, like disappearing infront of the naked eye, and ending up somewhere else on the planet? I know this sounds SCI FI, but still, I know what I saw.


In my heart of hearts, I know such things are possible. My personal experience is a little different. I have seen (and done) impressive things in my day, but not physical teleportation or the like. (Ok, I've seen the results of someting rifted in but I didn't see it live, nor was I the one doing it, but it was for me.) As much as I'd love to pull what Dr. Manhattan does, I can't right now (doesn't mean I'm not willing to try to figuire it out!).

My experience with Voodoo as such "parlor tricks" are just that, tricks. Voodoo is very good with memory and perception chemicals/drugs via powders. Much of what they do IS all about impressing those that come on by. Powders versus magical energy if you will. My view is, if it really was as real and therefore easy as they claim, there would be special forces units full of these guys all over the world in every nation. Not to mention spy networks, let alone making themselves a ruling class. I'm not saying they don't have spiritual power via the Lwa, but that is different than what we are discussing.

From personal experience, it is far easier to affect what someone perceives than to actually make it physically happen. Subtle physical things happen such as syncronicity(even really impossible stuff), weather control, healing, etc. is far easier. But like anything else, anything is easy if you know how to do it.

Don't get me wrong, I've seen a lot of "OH SHIT" moments, I've even slowed time and other "out there" things personally. But I got where I got by being a skeptic, which means dismissing anecdotal evidence unless I've experienced simular, and even then I have to consider how much I trust the source. So please don't take offense at my position of not simply accepting what you saw at face value. I'm not debating that is how you interpreted the events, but weither the events occurred the way you interpreted them is something else again.
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Postby LordArt » Wed Sep 22, 2010 5:19 pm

...I wrote the above entry while the below was written evidently, so I'm answering this now...

entity wrote:well I do know this, The boy from Benin who did those "magic magical tricks"claims that besieged one of the spirits, and the spirit told him that he had to sacrifice something dear to him, so he was foolish enough to sacrifice. And he claims the spirit taught him how to do those things......etc.


That is typically how people get power from such spirits, but still not physical magic. But the other things you are saying here is more in line with what I mentioned in my previous entry. There is a big difference between physical teleportation and climbing the corporate ladder. The latter I can easily believe and is certainly within magic's typical pervue. Physical teleportation and walking through walls, I would say would be more typical if one was seeing an astral overlay than actual teleportation. But again, that is my view of it, and what I have seen of such events. Kind of like seeing a ghost, the person sees it, but the eletronic equipment doesn't in the same physical sense of it.

entity wrote:With kabbalah, the reason why i asked that is I wanted the Omnimancers view on when Aleister Crowley was in his death bed, the story goes, " the doctor took him off morphine, and Crowley told him. If you take me off of morphine, I will die and when I die, I swear upon the great spirit Tapthartharath, that you will join me. Crowley died, and in 24 hours the Doctor died of natural causes."

This sounds like an Ol Boy network story, but the Good ol boys truly Believe in the tree of life and each sphere with spiritual contact can really do those things I said above. So, this all sounds like Narnia, but what is the scientific view on this.


While if the curse is true or not, I don't know. I know Crowley demonstrated his power (or at least how the story goes) while he was showing someone how he could use sympathetic magic to syncronise himself with someone else, in this case the person walking in front of him. He mimiced their walking gate exactly and their motions then he threw himself to the ground and the other dropped the same way. True or not, I don't know. But I will say it is far easier to do that then the other physical magic effects you mentioned. Manipulating people and events is easier (and quite doable) than manipulating matter itself (on a hollywood scale anyways). Considering I've done simular to the Crowley story you mentioned, I don't discount it. I would say however, if he was hyped up on Morphine, I don't know how magically savy he would have been in such a state.
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Postby entity » Wed Sep 22, 2010 7:33 pm

this is a good order to be in. From what the website looks like, it seems that it would be a a site that is amateurs or a scam. but, I see we have people who did actual research, because it matches what i've read, and studied. Im glad to have found this website
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Postby LordArt » Wed Sep 22, 2010 9:53 pm

entity wrote:this is a good order to be in. From what the website looks like, it seems that it would be a a site that is amateurs or a scam. but, I see we have people who did actual research, because it matches what i've read, and studied. Im glad to have found this website


I'm not quite sure how to take that. I didn't think the site was THAT bad. :) I'm not quite sure how you make any magic site not look silly considering the subject matter.
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Re: forging kabbalah and voodoo with omnimancy

Postby Kat » Fri Sep 24, 2010 7:34 pm

LordArt wrote:
entity wrote:has there been any research projects for using the tree of life kabbalah and or voodoo with omnimancy?

There is a student that belongs to the OSOGD (Open Source Order of the Golden Dawn) that might be able to shed her perspective on your query. I have given mine.


Greetings! I am said student. I can't speak to Voudon, but I can say simply that Qabalah and Omnimancy serve different ends, and for that reason are not really compatible (although BECAUSE they are apples and oranges, there is no conflict with doing both at the same time in parallel).

Basically the purposes of Omnimancy are Thaumaturgic, and the purposes of Qabalah are Theurgic. Therefore, Omnimancy doesn't really have a use for something like Qabalah that I can tell. One of the more "mundane" uses of Qabalah is to have a shared language between ceremonial magicians, but since Omnimancy stresses *individual* symbology, even the IMHO very helpful shared-symbol-set aspect is irrelevant for Omni.

That being said - the process of learning Omnimancy-style magic develops skills that are very useful for practical Qabalistic work. The work of developing one's senses and ability to move large amounts of energy ends up being extremely useful for any kind of effective Theurgy, including Qabalistic work.

Regarding that Crowley tidbit - where did you hear this story? Sounds like total BS to me, honestly. I cannot even figure out why he would invoke Tapthartharath in particular for this purpose???
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Postby entity » Sat Sep 25, 2010 10:44 am

Kat and Lord Art

Thanks for clairifying that up. thats interesting. The story from Aleister Crowley was told to me by a OTO group from Marcello Motta's lineage, but I thought it was BS too. And why would he invoke a mercurial spirit? The guys name who told me it was David Bersson. I felt bad vibes from him ever since i meet the guy, so i distanced myself from them..

anyhow thats where i heard it from
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