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Omnimancy and Drug Use

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Omnimancy and Drug Use

Postby FireEssence » Sun Sep 11, 2005 12:12 pm

Well in my time I've come across many a magical organization and quite a few seem to have doctrine on the use of drugs. Some view all drugs as inhibitors and toxic, some view all (or many) as mystical enhancers, while others either have no doctrine, or stay in-between. I of course have my own personal views on drug-use in relation to magical and/or mystical workings and experiences but I started this thread more to ask about if Omnimancy has:
a) Any doctrine on drugs etc. in magic.
b) Done any research on astral effects drugs may cause.
c) Rules within the group in reference to what Omnimancer's can and cannot do within their personal life (such as use [certain?] drugs or substances) and still stay within the group.
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Postby LordArt » Sun Sep 11, 2005 2:39 pm

Interesting questions. Some organisations uses drugs to allow the practioner to "open up his mind", much like the native americans use paote(sp?) in their ceremonies for a "spiritual journey" aka hallucination. Many of the good effects drugs can have on magic, can be done without the negative aspects (societial-ie. illegal, or physical-ie. damage or addiction). The point should be to relax enough not to overthink a problem and let the information "flow". You can easily relax without drugs, such as with a warm bath or post-climax (solo or otherwise). In my first few years of marriage, I would keep a notebook by the bed because things would enter my mind afterwards so often. Some of the best work of OmniCore was done with us all in the Hot tub. Hell, g7a was conceived in a warm tub. I don't say all of this to creep you out but to point out the validity of the concepts. So my personal opinion is drugs are not needed for magic, and therefore are of no use toward it, and certainly aren't worth the negative side effects.

But to answer your specific questions about omnimancy... (Keep in mind, I can really only answer about Core since each group runs their own rules, so they can chime in if they wish, but most seem to follow in Core's footsteps on most things):
a) There is no official doctrine on drugs in omnimancy, no. However, I doubt a habitual drug user would make it past the screening process simply because of the personality that would normally go with that. We look for a strong spirit/person, not a broken one (which a habitual user would normally be). Honestly, I can't see a habitual drug user having the modivation to come to meetings often enough to matter anyways. Some former newbies had a hard enough time with that without drugs. :)
b) I don't believe there has been any FORMAL research no. (Anyone can jump in here if they have done their own "personal" research or not). I know from personal experience that when your mind is scrambled (either from alcohol or emotional stress) that it's THAT much harder to cast or focus to do much of anything. I can't really see that being any different with more powerful drugs.
c) The groups generally don't restrict their members. By definition, most are non-conformists anyways. Very few things are really restricted. Things that would endanger the rest of the group would be at the top (Doing something illegal that would drag some or the rest of the group with them when they fell, etc.) We REALLY frown on psi-vamping. Evangelists of any type usually not allowed to stay (or even get in for that matter). But to get back to your question, drug use on their own time is their problem/concern. They just aren't to make it the group's problem. It's never come up. Basically, anything that would break the normal rules of the group would also count against them. Any type of dismissial when it comes up is individual and dealt with on a individual situation basis anyways.

I hope that answers your question... (any other comments?)
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Postby FireEssence » Sun Sep 11, 2005 3:33 pm

No I think that pretty much covered it. :)

(And since you put sp, the drug in question is peyote)
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Postby Obsidian » Mon Sep 12, 2005 5:15 am

I've got a question regarding this.

How are we defining drugs here?

What I consider a drug, might differ to what you consider. Or something I think is a drug might have absolutely no negative influence on an astral level.

The drug that brought this to mind is DMT. DMT is produced in small quantities naturally in the body, with a significant increase during birth, during a near-death experience, and I've read after OOBE's and the like.

Now, DMT is produced in the body. But we can also harvest it externally and ingest it.
A drug like Alcohol, or Cocaine, or an Opiate, isn't produced naturally in the body and hence will have an impact on our astral system, but how would something that's part of us, affect us?
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Postby LordArt » Mon Sep 12, 2005 7:48 am

I'm not going to mince words about if X drug or Y drug will have a different effect, because in the end, only direct experimentation will tell, and I'm certainly not going to do those experiments.

And to be completely honest, it's a pointless series of experiments too. At least from an Omnimancy point of view. Your relying on an external physical object (a drug) to enhance/allow your magical practice? That's an awful weakness to have, and I'll explain why.
1. I can't believe any drug would enable you to do anything that proper training wouldn't, at least magically.
2. Drugs have a tendency of being addictive, if not physically, then psychologically. You may have to start using that drug for NON-magical purposes just to keep "normal", and not go through withdrawl. Sometimes it only takes one use to become addicted.
3. What about side effects? You got a doctor around to verify that if there are no apparent side effects that it isn't actually liquifying your organs without you knowing it, til it's too late to do anything about it?
4. What about expense? Are you rich enough to constantly supply yourself with this drug JUST so you can do magic? That seems sort of silly.
5. What happens if/when your body builds a tolerance for the drug in question? Move to a more powerful one that might not be as safe? How will that affect your practice then?
6. And what about your magical practice? If you spent months even YEARS on the drug, and all of a sudden you can't use it for various reasons, your back to square one magically because you've trained yourself to use that drug for your magical practice. It was an external crutch that has now been removed, and now your screwed.

In the end, your only setting yourself up for a fall with trying to mix drugs and magical practice. In my opinion, it's a bad path to choose, and really isn't needed.
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Postby Strider » Mon Sep 12, 2005 12:02 pm

Speaking as the Head of OmniNorth, I do not condone drug use. I personally see it as a sign of weakness. This applies to both recriational and "modern" western medical drugs. In my mind they reduce the bodies natural ability to function, but this is my personal experience (at least with the medical drugs... never tried/will try recreational... too many voices in my head already don't need something adding to that).

Note: The following paragraphs are not for sympathy but to explain my stance on medical drugs and medicine in general.

My experience with "modern" western medical drugs and medicine is a long an excrutiating one. Pretty much from ages 5-9 my left leg caused me severe pain. Infact it did not grow in size at all... so by the time I was 8ish my left leg and foot was physically 3-4 sizes smaller than my right. I was on almost every horse pill known to man and then some (hey... a kid with this problem is easy foder for "experimental" stuff).

I've gone through 2 EMGs (The shove electrified needles into your muscle and pulse currents back and forth) both of which the doctors insisted the pain killers they gave me were right for a child my age instead of my size (I was a large kid even then height andweight wise) so I suffered through them with them insisting the pain was in my head. Countless MRI's. X-Rays, so forth so on... till the problem was found 3 years into the fiasco as a small tumor in my tibia restricting circulation.

It all came down to 3 years of being a guinea pig because they thought the problem was in one part of my body when a simple X-Ray on where the pain was revealed the problem right off the bat.

I can further go into a rant about the corrupt pharmicutical in America but I think my point has been made thus far.

/endrant back on topic

This is my opinion though. Provided that what people do behind their close doors when not with me doesn't affect what I am trying to accomplish... ::shrugs:: It will irk me, but we are all meant to make our own choices in life and learn what lessons we need to learn.

As far as what classifies itself as a drug.. ::shrugs: One can say Caffine is a drug.... ALL PRAISE THE MIGHTY DEW! ::chuckles:: In which case that is something I am a proponent of... ::shrugs::

Alright. I am tangenting now. I am just going to close this here.
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Postby StormSeeker » Mon Sep 12, 2005 5:50 pm

If you want a definition of the term drug that I'll be using here (for ease), look at dictionary.com

(I do include things like caffeine, because they do affect the nervous system and physiology of the person, as well as things like DMT and 5-HTP _if_ they are ingested or taken from an outside source.

Regardless of whether your body produces a compound or chemical, if you are taking more of that expressly for the purpose of affecting your physiological, physical or mental state, you are effectively medicating yourself, which falls under the standard dictionary definition of a drug. Also a lot of compounds which the body produces naturally, such as 5-HTP (which is broken down to produce Seratonin which is often useful in treating some cases of depression and S.A.D and fatigue) are sold as additional compounds because they help treat or influence known medical conditions.)

I don't condone drug use but like most other things, I don't outright condemn it either. I've known people who have tried things like peyote, purely for the experience and curiousity. Some liked it, some didn't, those that didn't, didn't touch it again.

(And as far as addiction goes, whilst some drugs can incur and instigate addictions purely on their own, there is a lot of speculation within addiction psychology as to whether a person must have an "addictive personality" to begin with before they will become addicted to certain drugs...or before they become susceptible to addiction to certain drugs. Note: not exactly the same as a developed physical dependency.)

Hence some people can go ahead and experiment once with a non-chemically addictive substance and are fine. Whilst others may not be.

In my experience, just about everything you ingest or absorb via the physical body, will have some form of impact on the astral and often other levels of being (emotional, mental, etc.) The degree of this impact varies.

For example, some people can handle large quantities of caffeine, whilst over on a certain journal community the other day, someone posted in a panic because they had taken a painreliever containing caffeine and taken too much and were experiencing "the shakes" from the equivalent of 3 cans of Dr Pepper, and wondered if they ought to call a doctor.

From personal experience, having looked astrally at people who drink a lot of caffeine, it tends to affect their aura adversely as well as their mental processes, amongst other things. Alcohol tends to shred the aura and make it look like a cross between swiss cheese and the grated stuff. Both will typically affect psychic abilities like telepathy and empathy, to varying degrees. Also psychokinesis. But more importantly, both affect the mental and emotional aspects of a person. (You try casting next time you're drunk off your ass, see how much focus and concentration you can muster :P Not to say that a person can't do so, but it typically does inhibit/adversely affect such things.)

Anti-depressants and such also show up in the aura as well. If you know what to look for, you can spot people on these medications just by examining what is sloughed off by their aura and what is contained within.

I have also been asked to help in a couple of instances where people have attempted suicide by ingestion of drugs (such as weed/pot) and/or alcohol. The effects that were produced on the astral by doing so, are far too lengthy to list (and I don't understand them all on a conscious level either), but suffice to say that we know that overdosing of painkillers along with or without alcohol, can induce death or failure of various organs or nervous system/brain/psychological damage and such...and you do the math. That sort of damage is very rarely confined only to the physical IME.

Personally, I've been on a number of antibiotics and such over the past couple of years, and have done research into how this affects me on the astral and what it affects, etc, when I'm able to. Same for caffeine, as well as mineral and vitamin consumption (in myself and other psions, since it's believed that PK lowers potassium, blood sugar and possibly iron levels in some people as well.)

As a healer, a lot of my "healing" tech and "painrelieving" tech (technique as well as 'technology') has come from observing and learning about how the various antibiotics and painrelievers I've taken affect the systems on various levels and where they affect, and creating tech that does much the same (or more effectively or whatever.)

And to further expand upon Arthur's third point: something as simple as aspirin can be chewing up your stomach lining or adversely affecting your liver and spleen, for years, if taken regularly, without demonstrating any physical symptoms. And often we take vitamins daily, and see no discernable impact on the physical body for doing so...but underneath all that skin and muscle, you can bet they're definitely affecting something somewhere - positively or otherwise.

Essentially, the basic premise is that everything is reflected. "As above, so below." Something which affects the physical, will typically affect the astral. (Next time you experience a paper cut or some sort of wound, take a look at it on the astral.)

IME it's not a question of: does it affect, but to what extent, where and what and for how long.

(CB, as far as I was aware, DMT is only speculated to possibly be present in elevated levels during near-death experiences and the like. If you know differently though, give me a link to your research - I'm definitely curious :) )
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Astral effects of some 'natural' drugs and others

Postby mahasvapna » Sat Sep 30, 2006 8:13 pm

Hello all, I haven't posted an intro yet, but as it happens I have been using entheogens and a small number of chemical drugs (drugs in the pop-culture sense) for several years, and now that I'm expanding as a magician I've put most of them away. As it happens, though, a large part of my own experience was geared towards understanding what was happening during one drug or another to my consciousness and astral body.

I'll touch on my own lexicon as I go, because I'm not sure our vocabulary is perfectly aligned...

First of all, I think it's worth mentioning that I agree with previous posts stating that dependancy on any drug, natural or otherwise, will inhibit your progress as a magician of any tradition. However, as an initiatory stage of your developement, almost every drug that comes directly from the soil of the earth in some fashion, will give insight into the various 'nearer' planes of consciousness.

Each power plant, in it's natural state, has a specific lesson to teach you. When you grasp that lesson, it's best to let the plant go, and begin applying that lesson to your natural state. The purpose of some drugs is to weaken the ego and grant insight into higher consciousness. Others teach us how to use our ego for constructive purposes. I have only had experience with a limited number of entheogens, and for the moment these are all that I am interested in personally.

Marijuana - A common favorite. Marijuana teaches the lesson of connection within the ego. Few people experience a loss of ego in consciousness while 'high' on marijuana. However, the feelings experienced during the high are similar to what is experienced during moments of divine elation (that is to say, moments in which you are infused with a vibration of energy significantly higher than your own). The aura becomes wide and fluffy, but not as dense, and the alteration of it's total vibration is an easy feat. This is why when you are on MJ it is easy to shift into an emotional extreme. I mention that it teaches the less of connection, because the intensity of perception is increased significantly, to the point where, intially, the user's astral senses become almost perfectly aligned with the physical senses. Most users experience a wide variety of psychic phenomenon in the early stages of their experimentation with MJ, some consciously and some less so. In my own experience, I laid the foundation for almost all of my psychic developement when i first began smoking.
Drawbacks to habitual MJ usage include a general diffusion of energy. As I mentioned before, one's energy is light and easily affected (from both the personal context and the external context) by vibrational changes. Most long term MJ users are a bit unfocused, sometimes lazy, tend to remain at rest or become introverted, and this is a result of that diffusion of energy. Regular usage should stop before this happens in an ideal situation. The lesson of connection is twisted into dependancy, and I first personally realized there was a problem when I realized that I had a hard time connecting without the plant. If this occurs, one should, in my opinion, abstain completely at least until one is able to manifest psychic connection on one's own.

"Magic" mushrooms - Specifically, in my case, psilocybin cubensis. The spirit of the mushroom is a unified collective, which is to say that there are many personalities and consciousnesses within the sphere of it's astral context. Mushrooms teach flexibility of consciousness, including the removal of personal ego. I say flexibility because during a mushroom trip, reality becomes malleable; it's many layers, usually percieved as composite structures, become disctrete parts percieved at first usually in arbitrary combinations, with one or more layers missing while others (sometimes higher and lower vibrations normally not percieved) become magnified. Mushrooms offer an easy doorway to astral projection, dimensional exploration, and unification with divine principles, however the cost of any mushroom trip is the knowledge of the difference between the individual and the universe. All of my trips have been informative and transformational, but also very frightening and humbling. It's effects on the astral body are unique. Each structure is posessed of an astral 'template', and while intoxicated on mushrooms, the astral body will take on the apparent template of any structure it is connected to, sometimes by simple proximity, but more often because of the meanderings of the individual's thoughts. The key to navigating dimensions on shrooms is mastering the mind chatter completely, and maintaining that mastery while intoxicated. As an intiatory tool, mushroom trips will teach the novice how to momentarily suspend the classical interpretation of one's perceptions and open up to a wider range of frequencies associated with a particular structure.
The drawbacks to mushroom dependancy are few, the mushroom spirits are incredible benificent, even when they are harsh. Usually there will come a time when they will simply inform you that you are done for a while, and tripping after that will often seem less magical, as though you are simply floating untethered through dimensions. Outisde of the intoxication, regular reality may seem overly stiff and rigid, and this may result in depression, anxiety, or general dissatisfaction with 'normal' life.

Datura (Stramonium) - A very dangerous plant, spoken of a bit in Carlos Castaneda's Teachings of Don Juan (et al.), datura stramonium (which is the strain I am personally experienced with) can teach a variety of lessons, but at great risk to the seeker. Most lessons are accompanied by fear. The flowers and leaves, which I am familiar with (as opposed to the seeds and roots, which I am not) teach about mortality, the nature of disincarnate beings of many varieties, and about dreaming while awake. I have only attempted four datura sessions, and all of them put my body in a near coma-like state. This plant speaks, as in words that you hear, directly to you, and requires your utmost attention. I have not had the chance to observe an individual intoxicated with datura, but I believe that it lowers the vibration of the astral body, and relaxes the ego to allow a more direct connection with the consciousness of the planet (specifically our planet; datura's lessons deal specifically with the earth, not the greater system around it). Sensory withdrawal can also be learned from this plant, if you pay very close attention to the process of going into the sleep state. Unlike the other previously mentioned entheogens, Datura is no plant for the initiate. It does not express ideas in simple terms, and in both of my first two trips I didn't understand most of what I was given, although it's accuracy was demonstrated later in my life.
Dependacy on datura is unheard of in my knowledge, but will most certainly result in death. Five trips, spaced far apart, will be sufficient. I was warned personally (and this may not be universal) that five trips was my own limit, and that it would not be forthcoming beyond the fifth journey. More than this, and there are very real and serious risks to the mind and body, and probably the spirit as well. Datura is a poisonous plant, and very powerful, it is a member of the nightshade family and should be respected the same way one would respect a very sharp knife, or a gun.

Ecstacy - The only chemical drug I am experienced with, the energy of ecstacy is very very different from any plant. Being man made, I believe, although the active ingredient is plant derived, gives it a particularly human characteristic, and in fact the astral body remains relatively unchanged. The one major change I have observed is that the magnetic quality of the astral body is enhanced perhaps ten fold the first time. Energy litterally flows in from everywhere at once, placing the individual into a state of divine union, if the individual is around the proper energy. Some natural setting is best. I have not used it in a club setting, where it has become very popular, but it is popular because in that setting, one loses all sense of individuality in the massive exchange of energy occuring between all the discrete parts of the group. What i have seen there is litterally one very large astral body, flowing amongst the many individual physical bodies.
Dependacy on ecstacy litterally burns you out. One becomes unable to grasp and hold energy at all, something akin to becoming astrally incontinent. Every energy conduit in the body is 'widened' and the flow of energy is incredibly smooth, so when that condition becomes permanent, and the magnetic boost is gone, one is left with the inability to hold onto energy for any length of time. This explains the 'suicide tuesday' that anyone without some control over their energy system will go through. Seeking out divine union is the only way to attain this sensation without the drug, but knowledge of that state of consciousness can benefit the initiate in more ways than i could possibly describe. It teaches you to open your heart.

LSA (morning glory seeds) - Also found in baby woodrose seeds, the lesson of LSA is similar to the lesson of shrooms, but specifically geared towards physical structures. Excellent for learning forms of divination that involve picking out shapes or pictures in patterns of some sort (such as reading tea leaves for instance). Also good for evocation. Astrally, LSA functions as something comparable to an astral translator, assimilation of unstructured energy is very smooth and easy, and the state of mind one assumes is worth remembering while travelling dimensions in regular practice. Patterns are grasped from any group of seemingly unconnected events, objects, or concepts.
I also cannot imagine a dependacy on LSA, partially because the intiation of the experience is unpleasant, but also because to the questing mind, it's lesson is easily grasped, and it comes obsolete quickly.

Salvia Divinorum - classically called the diviner's sage, salvia teaches the lesson of dimensional fluidity. After five or six intense trips (in my case, less perhaps for others, more perhaps for some) it teaches the individual the art of seperating dimensions and slipping 'in between' to observe the interaction between them. Astrally, one's energy becomes a sort of alternating current which shifts one out of phase with normal reality. It becomes almost impossible to function in the physical world while on an intense salvia trip, because rather than percieving and interpreting physical information, one is interpreting only the interaction between the discrete parts that form the physical dimensions.
I don't think you'd ever be functional enough to develope a dependacy on salvia, but it would most certainly render you insane, were you to use it constantly. Bipolar disorder would be, according to comparison between one's energetic state while on salvia and the energetic state of an individual with that disorder, the most likely result. An inability to maintain constant frequency, either high or low.

so, those are the drugs, natural and otherwise, that i have experience with and have researched on the astral level. Cigarettes and alcahol are other common 'drugs' but have little practical value to the magician as far as I can tell, although both will inhibit magickal practice somewhat in my experience. I do smoke cigarettes, and have found that they harmonize the energy, but do so by shutting it off from external influences (I actually smoked three or four during a psychic attack from an old.... associate.... and waited out the assault until it was over with no significant harm). this is why a habitual smoker will often become irritated for seemingly no reason in between cigs, and why the withdrawal involves a great deal of anxiety and touchiness, one's energy being sensitive to external influences after spending so much time seperated. Seperation is a double edged blade, apparently.

In my opinion, only the drugs taken directly from the earth are worth experimenting with, in addition to Acid (possibly, I've never done it) and Ecstacy for their unique qualities (we humans do get a few things right now and then), however one should learn their lessons as quickly as possible and become self-sufficient in the application of those gifts. Dependancy will halt progress as soon as one's natural ability to shift consciousness equals the effects of the drug. Until you give it up, you won't be able to hit higher states than what the drug can give you, but by the time you can attain those states on your own, you shouldn't need the drug any longer, and you will be well equipped to explore further on your own.

The spirits of these substances are allies and teachers, and they are connected to the consciousness of the earth and perhaps the universe at large. Respect them as you would a teacher, exceed them as you would a teacher.

peace
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Postby Oyama » Sun Oct 01, 2006 1:49 pm

I'd just like to point out that as far as cigarettes are concerned, the irritability between cigs and the anxiety of withdrawal have more to do with the consequences of a physical addiction. While what you say happens astrally may or may not hold true (I've never looked, so I don't know), I don't think it is right to attribute those symptoms to what's happening astrally. What I mean is, I don't think the problem originates on the astral.

While I'm sure cigarettes affect you astrally, the symptoms you described stem from the fact that nicotine is a chemically addictive substance, and the act of smoking also tends to form a psychological addiction (the act of smoking becomes such a routine part of life that the person can't imagine going through their day without it).

Again, I'm not saying that cigarettes don't have some astral affect, I'm sure they do. My issue is that you seem to attribute the withdrawal symptoms to the astral, rather than the physical, which I believe is incorrect. The problems are caused by what's going on physically, not what's happening astrally. That they are reflected astrally in some way or another is no surprise, but those astral effects aren't the reason for those symptoms, in fact they are probably also symptoms themselves.
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Postby mahasvapna » Mon Oct 02, 2006 2:36 am

Phsyical phenomenon are directly reflective of astral phenomenon - changes in one's astral structure affect one's behavior directly, and this is how one is able to discern an individual's mood, thought patterns, etc., by learning to observe their energy.

Every atom has a particular weight, a vibration, and an electromagnetic field of resonance dependent on it's 'charge' and therefore every molecule has a particular resonance, and it is that vibration which dictates it's interaction. It's all energy, and this particular post was intended to elucidate the effects of these drugs in energetic terms. Mentioning those behavioural manifestations of energy shifts helps the reader understand the relationship between the movements of consciousness and the movement of their subtle body.

While I'm not arguing that the effects aren't physiological in origin, this quality of the subtle body during interaction with cagarettes is an observation, and whether it is the chemical which causes the alteration, or the alteration that causes the mood shift, is irrelavent.

However, as a test, you may consider assuming the same subtle stance (that is, holding the subtle body in a particular shape with particular qualities) mentioned - essentially 'solidifying' the outer edges of your subtle body, which normally gradients out from your center as a kind of fuzzy edged roundish cloud-egg, to the point that your subtle body becomes totally distinct from your astral environment (imagining yourself encased in a glass egg might help, as I don't know your personal level of skill). After assuming this stance, resonate your energy within the bubble so that your energy moves towards your center, bounces out against the edges of your bubble, and back into your center. Work up the feeling of having as many of these individual waves resonating at even intervals, until you have a steady vibration of a kind of 'tenor' tone (I think in musical tones, pardon). This is the structure of the subtle body while smoking a cigarette. Assume this subtle stance, if you remember, in the presence of some kind of dissonant energy feild. Observe your behavioural/emotional reaction. Then, let the outer edge down while maintaining the resonance that was within it for as long as possible, while still in the presence of the dissonant energy (basically any situation that is stressful in any way, maybe during a really good horror movie). Observe your behavioural/emotional shift.

Assuming, or attempting to assume, these subtle structures after observing them is my current method of testing the relationship between the structure of the subtle body and behaviour patterns. You may be familiar with the way the subtle body can become dis-eased or have blockages or 'dark spots', and that those malfunctions can result, ultimately, in physical illness. Well, those malfunctions affect your emotional state, which affects your behavioural state and your physical state. Introducing any outside energy to the body - food, drugs, water, clothing, etc. - changes the body's energy someway, because when you are exposing yourself to the gross physical object, you are also exposing yourself to it's subtle counterpart. People are not the only things with subtle bodies, the entire universe has a subtle body, and any small part of it. The interaction of the subtle parts is played out in the gross physical parts.

It is because of this principle of interaction that taking drug will put you in a state and keep you there whether you want to stop or not - although in my experience, willfully assuming a more natural subtle stance can focus and clear your mind in these states, grounding you for a moment - while assuming the subtle stance associated with the same drug will produce the same effects on your consciousness and thus your behaviour, although some stances are more difficult to assume than others, and one must willfully maintain it, which does cost energy.

Ahem.... so, yes it is physiological, but it is also energetic, and either phenomenon can be produced independantly (by assuming either the subtle stance of a cigarette high, or by assuming a 'normal' stance while smoking a cigarette.

pardon my tendancy to go on and on, I'm a gemini, just wordy for some reason.

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Postby Teven » Mon Jan 07, 2008 3:54 am

I havn't read the whole thread, and Im new to all of this, but I've attempted astral projection and my best friend the guy who got me into magic, who leaves tomarrow for the navy and I'll probably never see him again got me to try DXM. Most commonly found in robotussin which we did our homework on and is perfectly legal though frowned upon.
And the one and only time I have ever gotten high was off this stuff and probably never again it was interesting though. I went into what we call Robo sleep. My body basically felt completly asleep though I was mentally concious (it was an extremly strange feeling) and so I decided to try to astral project and I suprisingly got much better results by feeling my arm and leg in multiple places. I know the drugs didnt fool me into thinking this because you retain your mental capabilties while on low doses of this stuff you just stop caring about most things. I can remember everything perfectly, though I acted kinda silly my current mental state was completly intact.


(Note: PLEASE do not try to use DXM without your reasearch from doing our own reasearch where I live certain types of robo have diffrent stuff in them as well as DXM what we abbreviate and call ACE and GUI. Ace can kill you and Gui makes you extremly sick. This is just a recount on my personal experiences with a drug and an attempt at something related to magic.)
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Postby FireEssence » Mon Jan 07, 2008 4:49 pm

Teven wrote:I havn't read the whole thread, and Im new to all of this, but I've attempted astral projection and my best friend the guy who got me into magic, who leaves tomarrow for the navy and I'll probably never see him again got me to try DXM. Most commonly found in robotussin which we did our homework on and is perfectly legal though frowned upon.
And the one and only time I have ever gotten high was off this stuff and probably never again it was interesting though. I went into what we call Robo sleep. My body basically felt completly asleep though I was mentally concious (it was an extremly strange feeling) and so I decided to try to astral project and I suprisingly got much better results by feeling my arm and leg in multiple places. I know the drugs didnt fool me into thinking this because you retain your mental capabilties while on low doses of this stuff you just stop caring about most things. I can remember everything perfectly, though I acted kinda silly my current mental state was completly intact.

(Note: PLEASE do not try to use DXM without your reasearch from doing our own reasearch where I live certain types of robo have diffrent stuff in them as well as DXM what we abbreviate and call ACE and GUI. Ace can kill you and Gui makes you extremly sick. This is just a recount on my personal experiences with a drug and an attempt at something related to magic.)


Dextromethorphan is in a class of anticholergenic agents known as dissociatives and at higher doses can cause delirium and all effects commonly ascribed to a state of delirium, as well as the general effects of inhibiting acetylcholine reception (anticholergenic effects) such as poor muscular control, etc.

Because of its interference with acetylcholine reception, you lose a lot of your "connection" with your muscles among other things, and that is what makes it interesting as a dissociative along with the delirium. Overall, I feel that drugs which create such strong body highs aren't very useful for most magical work (running on the assumption that some drugs ARE) and when coupled with something such as astral travel, they can be good catalysts for starting an experience but generally have a negative effect on the QUALITY of that experience. Magical training allows your body (spiritual and physical) to adapt in the ways necessary for full immersion astral travel to occur best when you have trained up to your own natural point of "origin" so to speak. Thus, it is the best way to go about things if you want worthwhile, repeatable, and steady experiences.

I do give you kudos on researching the drug and ensuring you did not ingest guafinesin or acetaminophen, or any other harmful chemicals along with the DXM. In general, from a non-magical point of view, I feel anyone looking into trying any psychoactive substance should do so as responsibly as possible and know the risks involved, potential side-effects, and if they decide to go through with it, only use in a conducive environment (ie. don't take acid for the first time and go to a hardcore punk show and get in the pit, etc.).
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Postby Teven » Mon Jan 07, 2008 5:14 pm

Thanks for the insight though I took a really low dosage and only reached what you probably know as the low to mid first plateau.
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Postby Dumani » Sun Aug 02, 2009 5:46 pm

LordArt said:
We look for a strong spirit/person, not a broken one


Could you please define each?
Is it like the army where the drill sergeant "breaks your spirit" or is that more of a metaphor than what you're saying?..
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Postby LordArt » Tue Sep 15, 2009 4:46 pm

Dumani wrote:LordArt said:
We look for a strong spirit/person, not a broken one


Could you please define each?
Is it like the army where the drill sergeant "breaks your spirit" or is that more of a metaphor than what you're saying?..


A strong spirit/person is more refering to their strength of will. Meaning, their determination. Someone who can self-modivate to take the harder path when needed.

A broken spirit/person in this case also refers to their will. A broken person is using drugs to escape their responsibilities and run away from their problems rather than facing and confronting their problems.

I'm talking in generalities of course. I've known broken people who don't do drugs and strong people who have used drugs (but I've never seen one who uses drugs habitually that is still strong).

A Drill seagent breaks your spirit yes, so that you are moldable and then they recreate you in a way that the corps wants. At least that is the idea anyways.
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