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A place where any form of magic and stories/experiences related may be discussed. This is also appropriate to discuss general Omnimancy principles, of course.

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Postby Rabaheo » Mon Jun 05, 2006 2:32 am

I am new to this word...Omnimancy. however, apparently I am not new to the definition of it because from its description it is what I do so naturally. the person who defined omnimancy to me also said I probably did'nt have much else to learn beyond that, but *shrug* I don't belive him. so, I am here. Hi.
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Postby Rabaheo » Mon Jun 05, 2006 3:08 am

cleanup
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Postby LordArt » Mon Jun 05, 2006 2:20 pm

Hello.

What you describe could fall under almost any energy based magical systems (Omnimancy, Psionics, Chi working (I believe after a fashion), etc.) You might want to check out http://www.omnimancy.com/OmnimancerOverview.html to get a little more of the overview specifics of Omnimancy vs other energy based magical systems (if you are framiliar with them). Also, there are many threads in this forum giving further specifics.

What you describe isn't much different than what is in the public documents section of this site which represents the first couple of weeks of training (ie. one night a week), as well as things there that you have not described. So that should show you that you can have much more to learn, and by no means don't "have much else to learn beyond that". Also what you describe isn't much different than what could be picked up from some Psionic documents that are online. So to say you practice Omnimancy, or any other discipline for that matter at this point, would be overstepping things based on your description. I would say you do energy working at this point as a more apt description.

Omnimancy is very much dependant on "Tech" and amplifiers, etc. as described in the overview mentioned above once you get past the publicly documented stuff. The threads that you mentioned sound like more potientially how matter is made up based on your symbology versus tech and how it functions. To the layman, it may be too easy to confuse the two since most non-Omnimanciers have little idea what we actually do behind closed doors, so I can't really blame their misunderstandings.

As far as seeing threads of how matter is made up and that they are changable, I would wait til I was able to transmute matter before making such a claim that those threads are what you think they are. Mostly because there are a lot of variables when it comes to magic and matter, so what your observing might actually be something else. It might be in your interests for you to do such an experiment to see what you are actually observing or changing. From what I know of dimentional physics, you might be observing the fabric itself, rather than actual matter, or perhaps echos of said matter (such as a gravitation footprint and/or other properties/echos, etc.).

I think you have a good start, but I think you need to solidify what you have and understand it more for what it is.

Just my two cents.
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Postby Rabaheo » Mon Jun 05, 2006 3:11 pm

and why I am here. I seek someone to tell me what it is I am doing because all of what I do is simply things I stumbled up on by experience. The only magick I ever read anything about was when I looked into wiccanism and decided I did not like the idea of ritualistic magick when I could already do things far more simply. I read that overview of omnimancy befor I even knew you guys had a forum, I found it through a search of the word, and the next link down after that was this forum. describing something as a thread is as close as I can get with words, I'm not too awesome at describing. and I don't see them with my eyes anyway...in fact, I don't actually see them at all, I just feel their shape and guess on the image it would give for descriptive purposes. I could also translate them into taste or smell but those are much more difficult to describe than a picture. I do try to make observations and experiment. ...and don't expect me to really know all that much, I am only 19 and have been extremely sheltered from information like this by my family.

*sigh* I don't know anymore if I like this idea. by the way, i can sense you from here simply from your words. you realize you imprint an energy signature that I can read on everything you direct to me right? I think I may leave this place. I don't care if I don't know what I am, it just gives me more power over doubt if I don't know what I am not suppose to be able to do. ...I already know i can create whole worlds and creatures in them...
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Postby LordArt » Mon Jun 05, 2006 8:57 pm

Your what is called a "natural mage". Most have their own abilities and apart from a passing curiousity of why and how, they rarely put the time and effort required to figuiring out the how and why. Mostly because they come to the conclusion they don't need the hows and whys to do what they do, and they are correct. And generally, they do it better than most trained magic users. However, their advancement is normally static, or only happens when "events" happen in their lives that need them to use somethng more than they have used before. So their advancement is reliant more on their environment and "fate" then their own training.

However, a trained magic user CAN become more powerful than a natural mage because they have a basis to grow upon. There is a foundation to move forward. Many vetern magic users ARE more powerful than natural mages, but they worked to become so.

For me, I like to know how things work, reguardless of if it makes me more powerful or not (but honestly, it normally DOES make me more powerful). The understanding of the mechanics of how something works, versus the assumptions of how something works is what I do.
A good example is your statement about sensing me by my words. I'm not trying to hide myself, nor do most people. While the words on the screen have no energy in themselves, the mind that created those words (mine) DOES have energy that it puts out and can be identified. It's realtively easy to pick up on the energy of the person who wrote a post, NOT because the words on the screen hold the energy, but because somewhere out there, someone thought about what they were typing, and it's easy enough to compare the two to get a match. In your case, it's automatic and perceived as the words having a signature. In understanding the mechanics of it, I can apply that mechanic to other methods of communication to identify someone else's energy/find that person/entity.

For me, understanding is important and is a part of who I am. You came looking for answers, and I gave you some, that perhaps you didn't like. When looking for answers you have to be open to the possibility that some of the answers you already have may or may not be correct, especially if you self admit you know little. You cannot find answers if you assume the answers you have are correct without challenge, because that can lead to self-delusion. The magical community is FULL of people that are delusional, and they didn't start out that way. They claim to create universes, wink gods out of existance on a whim, but are flipping burgers at the local fast food joint with their personal lives a disaster. So if they are so fanastically powerful, why don't they rule the world or at the very least be able to afford a twinky? :lol:

I'll admit I'm pragmatic. I like to see things for what they are, versus what people try to make them into. It isn't about what your supposed to be able to do, it's about actually doing what you think your able to do. Making worlds can be easy depending on the place (such as your mind or other suitable areas). But in such areas, anyone can accomplish such feats, so is it a testimate of your power, or simply a testimate of your imagination, or perhaps ability to find such places? Perhaps the hardest thing to do is question what one does. Mostly because one is afraid of what the answers might be. One might be right, one might be wrong, but unless one questions, what do you REALLY know?
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Postby Rabaheo » Mon Jun 05, 2006 10:42 pm

moar cleanup
Last edited by Rabaheo on Tue Mar 25, 2014 4:28 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Postby LordArt » Thu Jun 08, 2006 1:31 pm

I had another reply a few days ago, but it timed out because I wrote it all day at work (small pieces here and there). The way it goes sometimes. Sometimes I'm busy, sometimes not....In anycase...

Rabaheo wrote:why would a person who is naturally good at magicks and making things happen...not constantly train to better themselves?


There are lots of reasons, not that I agree with them, but I'm not them. Some simply have no desire to figuire things out or make themselves able to do more. (They grew up with it, so didn't have to work for it, therefore it has no value to them. They had higher priorities than figuiring out their magic.) Some have no idea how their stuff works and therefore have no way of training other than just doing what they already know. Many decide that since it's been there when they needed it in the past, there is no reason to train. Others come up with some unsubstantiated reason why their own stuff works and that satisfies their curiosity and it ends there. Others try to go to existing magical systems, and get frustrated when it doesn't match up in the way that they do magic, or their beliefs in how their magic works and simply give up because it's easier. I'm sure there are many other reasons, but this is what I have seen myself or had discussions with others about it (including natural mages).

It's sort of the same issue that I have with "general" Magic vs Omnimancy per se. I always thought that people practiced magic to accomplish things, and therefore coming up with better/more efficient ways to do practical magic would be of interest to many people. The reality is at this point, that most people don't actually care if their magic does anything (which doesn't make any sense to me, but I'm not them. It was a big smack in the face of reality for me). The people that do practice magic to accomplish something, are actually a VERY small percent of practiioners. The majority use magic for religious reasons as a means of worship, or they do it for the "feeling" it gives them, or even something as simple as they think it makes them look "cool". With the rise of Thergy vs Thaumaturgy, these days (not that this is recent, it's more like since the 1950s-1960s), it's hard to find Thaumaturgy systems/groups. But that is my own pet peeve....

Rebaheo wrote:Another example of my ignorance, I am not aware of what are common, uncommon and trained skills for most people.


Somehow I find it hard to believe you've been living in a vacuum about all of this. Considering all the sites on this kind of thing, I'm sure you've been able to access the internet for years, you should know SOME of what your saying you don't know below. Am I the first person that has bothered to talk to about such things?? I find that hard to believe.

Rebaheo wrote:just a very good exampe of my poor descriptive skills.


I've seen arguments between people arguing the same point but because of terminology differences, they thought they were arguing different points. I will say that you should work on your descriptive skills to avoid being mis-understood or dismissed. It's far too easy on this subject.

Rebaheo wrote:I do like to know how what I'm doing works, but once I know how it works I like to not have to think about it again unless I'm trying to teach it to someone...because if one gets caught up in analyzing each step as they do it things go much slower and can cost a great deal.


Well, there is a difference between knowing how it works, and having to do each step each time you cast something. We use what we term as "macro casting"(for lack of a better term) that basically lets you do complicated spells without doing them step-by-step. In some cases, it only requires the step-by-step process once, and sometimes it's just a matter of copying from a teacher. (Or someone else :twisted:)


Rebaheo wrote:*eyes you* oh but that comment about those claiming to create universes, that was not in reply to my comment about having my own world was it?


Yes, it was. Mostly to prove a point of how you may not be aware of how your coming off. There are MANY things that I have done that is far more fantastical that I won't talk about on public forums because of credibility reasons. The majority that do talk about such things openly are either delusional or trolling. If such conversations happen, they are in private where people actually know more about each other than a few words on a screen and an anonymous screenname from a post.

Rebaheo wrote:I don't feel the need to tell you about my world cause I'm not issuing you an invitation to come to it...


That's quite fine. It's not an interest.

Rebaheo wrote:...it was to see if anyone else could do it. like i said, I don't know what people can and can't do. I don't know what is difficult or what is easy. is it hard to change someones luck? is it difficult to get energy directly from the sun, or power shields with different elements... is it hard to change the way ones own bones are connected, or is it easy to stop cancer in its track


What is common for people able to do or not is GREATLY dependant on the system that they follow.

    Creating Worlds - There are some astral dimentions that thought is easily translatable into form. So creating worlds in such realms is trival. Some systems are not aware of such places, nor does their dogma allow for such places, other magical systems rely on such places for their own use. For example, some believe in what they create in the astral somehow will eventually manifest in the physical in one form or another. Sometimes what people do is simply imagination, or sometimes it's a guided meditation to such realms.

    Changing Luck - That is probably a staple of almost all magical systems. So I would say it's rather common.

    Energy from the Sun - Many systems will use the sun symbolicly or metaphoricly. Some even believe they are getting energy from the sun, but they are getting more "symbolic" energy from something more local. And to them, since they are getting energy, they don't explore it further, especially if their dogma does not allow for it. To mechanically actually be able to get energy from the Sun normally requires someone skilled or amped.

    Powering Shields with different elements - Working with magical elements is probably as old as what we know of as magic. Magical elements is even in the common lexcon (ie. Earth, Air, Fire, Water) So I would say, it's rather common in many magical systems that reconize such elements. The elements that they use however, can be different per system, based on the dogmas in each system (For example, Wicca adds "Spirit" into the mix)

    Bones - Usually physical structural changes are difficult (other than someone hitting the "patient" with a baseball bat or something :) ) I have seen organs start to move around because of a side effect of something else that was going on. That was a rather bad thing(tm), so I know such things are likely possible, but in most cases unless your a god of biomechanics, arbitrarily altering the human structures/systems significantly ususally has RATHER negative concequences. Healing bones/fractures is something COMPLETELY different. I would say healing is an ability throughout all magical systems in one form or another. How well/quickly they would heal something like a bone would depend on the caster and the system they are using.

    Stopping Cancer - Different people have been able to do this to varying degrees of success. Usually it requires a lot of skill, and in most cases honestly, the curing of the cancer has nothing to do with the cancer itself, but that's something else again. I would say outright curing of cancer would be rare, but not impossible. I see nothing that would prevent skilled practioners from almost any magically system from giving it a successful shot. I would say in most cases the success rate would be better stated that it was put into remission than cured. And I suppose that remission would be a better description of "stopping cancer in it's tracks" versus curing cancer anyways.

Rebaheo wrote:....what do you do?


I do a lot of things. ;) As I mentioned above, I'm not one to discuss such things on open forums, at least not as such a generalized question.

Rebaheo wrote: (note, the above mentioned are not all what I do, I gather from others experience as well)


But if you "gather from others experience as well" then why do you claim to be so ignorant of what is and is not possible/easily done? I'm not trying to get on your case, but just trying to see where your coming from. As you say, your bad at describing things...


Well, back to work for me...
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Postby Rabaheo » Fri Jun 09, 2006 12:46 am

still cleanup
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Postby LordArt » Fri Jun 09, 2006 10:15 am

Rebaheo wrote:what is...trolling?


Trolling is an internet term. Basically it consists of a person who infiltrates a group, and poses as themselves or someone else, and starts to provoke the group that they have selected for their own amusement. Wikipedia has a good long description here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Internet_troll

Rebaheo wrote: I also share information because I did not concieve at the time that it might be used against me, as I can see must be a possibility for you to be so closed about what you do.


As you said, you are not known here, and you can leave at any time. This is kinda my "home". Also, it's a matter of reputation. Because Omnimancy is a radically different approach to magic, it's taken a LONG time to establish what credibility it has, both in my local community and online. I still give lectures where only a few actually understand it at the end because the others are trying to fit it into what they already know, which doesn't work to well.

Most people are use to people NOT knowing what they are talking about on magic, so if they start hearing things that they themselves have no frame of reference of (ie. simular experience), then they will normally dismiss ANYTHING that persons says as garbage/delusional. Even the Omnimancy students only hear about certain things higher up because they won't have the proper frame of reference to understand such things are possibile until later normally. Some never hear everything. It's the nature of the beast to run a tradition of this nature.

Rebaheo wrote:I am glad to know I am common, it lifts a great worry off of my mind.


I wouldn't call yourself "common". Of the pagan/magic using community, natural mages make up far less than .1% of that group. Generally they keep to themselves because no one understands them. They would rather have friends than being considered "freaks" or flakes. Among natural mages, I would consider what you mentioned somewhat common, yes. Among the magic using community as a whole, it would not be so common overall, and therefore unfortunately, you'll have to test the waters each time you meet a different group, and I believe you should do it more slowly than you have here. I have seen a lot so am willing to reserve judgement until I know more about the individual. Many are not. And I'm probably more tolarant than most in my group.

Well, good luck on your name search.
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Postby Beast » Mon Aug 28, 2006 11:48 am

Hi LordArt, been a long time. This discussion with Rabaheo certainly brought back memories, sort of reminded me of myself when I first posted to the Omnimancy forum. :wink:
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