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Mental Projection

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Mental Projection

Postby red30 » Thu Oct 14, 2010 1:19 pm

What is everyone's opinion of the value of mental projection, Not astral projection. Mental projection is the direct projection of one's intent. The best example I know of is the candle flame bending exercise. I read of chi kung/qi gong master being able to shuff out a candle flame at about 30 foot. I know that it also a empty force training exercises, are as I like to call it energetic force.
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Postby Psychokinetic Wannabe » Fri Oct 15, 2010 10:34 am

You should probably wait for a reply of one of the higher Omnis for fuller, more indepth responces, but to quickly make some notes on what terminology Omni uses:

The words "mental projection" are used by Omni to refer to a type of astral projection we typically use - as opposed to what is typically called astral projection, which is what we'd call "full immersion" projection, where you pretty much fully hop out-of-body.

What you're calling mental projection is obviously something else, so I figured it would be better if I clarified that from the start.

Of course, the phrase "direct projection of one's intent" is also blurring the line - because you can "project your intent" out into the physical world, or in the astral. As far I know, the actual projecting of the intent happens into the astral (or rather, the bit of you that makes it possible to manipulate energy is in the astral, so it starts in the astral, and then it has to make it's way down to the physical), so technically you're always projecting it 'into' the astral, it's just that from there you can make it cascade down to the physical. But in so far as we directly manipulate magical energy according to our intent, I'd say Omni's put significant value on that. I mean, you're either doing it directly, or you're doing it through some more indirect way, like ritual or by calling another entity to do it for you or whatever. Omni definitely prefers the direct way.

Anyway, Omni doesn't actually practice any 'physical magic' - ie stuff that effects the physical world. There's plenty of us who are interested in it and who have tried at one time or another to get consistent results, but the short answer is we don't have repeatable methods to make it happen yet. In my psion days I did basic PK stuff, psiwheels and straws. I occasionally made spoons balanced on rims wobble, but nothing I can repeat at will.
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Postby LordArt » Fri Oct 15, 2010 4:16 pm

Psychokinetic Wannabe wrote:Anyway, Omni doesn't actually practice any 'physical magic' - ie stuff that effects the physical world.


We do a lot to affect the physical world. Weather control, event manipulation, healing, etc. just to name a few. We just aren't casting fireballs down the hallways at work because we are bored. ;) (At least not reliably. :Flaming: :sprint: )
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Postby Psychokinetic Wannabe » Sun Oct 17, 2010 9:09 pm

Wording things in a way that is perfectly accurate is a bitch. :D

I figured all other those didn't count under what he was asking because they are indirect effects on the physical. IE, you want rain, here, in this time frame, and stuff works out to make it happen - but you're not going to directly move around even a single droplet of water consistently.

But I'm glad you caught that and clarified it.
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Postby red30 » Tue Oct 19, 2010 1:33 pm

I guess a better way of terming it would be. The mental projection of intent within the physical realm. Such things as psychokinesis, weather manipulation, elemental energy manipulation (creating a gust of wind, etc.)and other physical reality effects such as energy healing.
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Postby LordArt » Tue Oct 19, 2010 3:15 pm

red30 wrote:I guess a better way of terming it would be. The mental projection of intent within the physical realm. Such things as psychokinesis, weather manipulation, elemental energy manipulation (creating a gust of wind, etc.)and other physical reality effects such as energy healing.


That is just redefining spell casting with a more limited venue of effect from my perspective. Physical Magic or "vulgar" magic, is harder but not impossible (ie. TK, PK, etc.). Just Random at best. Healing, Weather Manipulation, event manipulation is rather normal. So my opinion is I like it?
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Postby red30 » Wed Oct 20, 2010 7:28 am

From my experiences with spell casting, either you change your perspective and become more away of that which you intend, or you alter chance in your favor. The stronger the intent and the desire for that intent the greater the chances of it manifesting is some form or fashion. Of course this is subjective as it is my experience. I myself can not do telekinetic feats, I can however use dmil to great effect. Mental projection in the non-astral sense allows me to effect those around me through focused intent, I just want to know the value of such an ability.
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Postby 4min33sec » Wed Oct 20, 2010 11:09 am

"I guess a better way of terming it would be. The mental projection of intent within the physical realm. Such things as psychokinesis, weather manipulation, elemental energy manipulation (creating a gust of wind, etc.)and other physical reality effects such as energy healing."

Is there any difference, any at all, between what you describe here and what we could describe simply as "spellcasting?"

If not, let's just call it spellcasting. Because "mental projection" means something very specific in Omnimancy practice, and continually using the term in a wildly divergent manner is not leading to any useful conversation at all, at all.
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Postby red30 » Wed Oct 20, 2010 4:08 pm

Then give me the omni definition of mental projection and I'll correct myself. Spellcasting is one method of non-direct mental projection. Direct mental projection to me is summoning up a gust of wind through the focus of intent without any additional efforts besides manipulating the energy around you through will-power. I know that omni's use tech casting.
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Postby 4min33sec » Wed Oct 20, 2010 4:11 pm

Psychokinetic Wannabe already provided you with a definition of how Omnis use "mental projection." In fact, it was the first reply you got.
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Postby LordArt » Wed Oct 20, 2010 4:20 pm

red30 wrote:From my experiences with spell casting, either you change your perspective and become more away of that which you intend, or you alter chance in your favor. The stronger the intent and the desire for that intent the greater the chances of it manifesting is some form or fashion. Of course this is subjective as it is my experience. I myself can not do telekinetic feats,


I think we are not quite speaking to the subject because of different definitions of terms.

For an Omni (and arguably many other types of magicians), a spell is the manipulation of magical energy to accomplish a task via one's will. This can be done through simple intent. This can also be done by more specific means such as magical tools (astral or otherwise). While intent and desire can be a factor, at least in Omni, the tools or methods(In this case Tech or other similar methods) and/or the amount of energy applied really becomes the deciding factor on the level of effect and reliability dwarfing intent and desire as deciding factors. As far as what is affected, it isn't limited to astral effects what-so-ever, nor is it a factor of simply changing one's perspective. I have an easy time affecting others as well and the environment via spell work methods, as do most magicians. Event Manipulation is affecting chance, but after a point is it really just affecting chance or simply a directed effect that isn't always perfect because of uncontrollable or unknown factors. Sort of like throwing a baseball. A machine even has a hard time doing things 100% accurate since other variables outside it's control affect things that it does.

I can however use dmil to great effect.


I have no idea what "dmil" is. I googled it and I mostly get "Demilitarized Zones", which I don't think you mean.

Mental projection in the non-astral sense allows me to effect those around me through focused intent, I just want to know the value of such an ability.


To me, Mental projection, as you define it, is simply redefining of terms of a sub-class of spell work to affect the physical (as you define it). You really are just talking about raw will spell work and you are doing yourself an injustice by calling it mental projection. Mostly because if you are trying to talk shop with other magicians, it's going to confuse them. If you are just talking to your buddies that term it the same way, then it doesn’t matter so much. Depends on your goals.

As far as the value, it's value is completely dependant on how you value it. Magicians study and do what they do because they value the results it gives them. Each system has their own way of doing things, what you describe is more raw will (ie. I want therefore it is). My experience with that method is it is very chaotic as far as reliability, but then again if that is one's system and one puts a lot of time and effort into it, I'm sure it becomes more practical. We use magical amplifiers which indirectly affect that kind of spell work (and even have spells to counter our baser desires to keep us out of trouble). I guess in the end, it’s value is how well it works for you. So you tell me how valuable it is. :)

I hope I answered your question somewhere in there...
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Postby red30 » Thu Oct 21, 2010 9:04 am

http://www.paranormality.com/dmils.shtml
Now, I'm not trying to bash omni or anything but, I'm a direct intent or raw will type of person. I found that the method worked best for me. However I'm always curious about different methods of getting things done. I've spent the last 3 years build up my willpower, which is a very difficult task. I know that in some cases using non-direct means works as well as direct means.
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Postby 4min33sec » Thu Oct 21, 2010 11:31 am

Raw will is nice, but in my experience it doesn't hold a candle to tech at all, at all.
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Postby red30 » Thu Oct 21, 2010 12:16 pm

That is subjective to the individual the system I'm currently using involves focusing my will through visualization and what I call spell affirmations. The use of repetitions of the affirmation gives my intent a lot more mental energy than that of sheer forced intent. I really don't know jack about tech, I've read on this site and a few others but it still doesn't make much sense to me. All of it sounds complicated.
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Postby 4min33sec » Thu Oct 21, 2010 1:05 pm

red30 wrote:That is subjective to the individual the system I'm currently using involves focusing my will through visualization and what I call spell affirmations. The use of repetitions of the affirmation gives my intent a lot more mental energy than that of sheer forced intent. I really don't know jack about tech, I've read on this site and a few others but it still doesn't make much sense to me. All of it sounds complicated.


If you don't know jack about tech, then you don't really have any data with which to say that it's subjective, do you?

I think what Arthur said above is probably a better intro to tech than I can come up with one my own:

"For an Omni (and arguably many other types of magicians), a spell is the manipulation of magical energy to accomplish a task via one's will. This can be done through simple intent. This can also be done by more specific means such as magical tools (astral or otherwise). While intent and desire can be a factor, at least in Omni, the tools or methods(In this case Tech or other similar methods) and/or the amount of energy applied really becomes the deciding factor on the level of effect and reliability dwarfing intent and desire as deciding factors."

In other words, tech is a tool-based approach. If we need to hammer a nail, we not only use a hammer every time, we use the same hammer every time, instead of relying on raw will to recreate the basic tool every time we need it. Like he said, reliability and effect skyrocket when you do this.

At the beginning of Omni training, we all used raw will primarily; there's a reason that that approach gets eclipsed by tech as quickly as we can learn that approach.
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