Dont do that or else !

[Celiborne]

One common theme I have found on a wide variety of forums of magic and psychism is that of Karma or cosmic retribution. I have always had a difficult time accepting the concept that the universe has some sort of automatic system of punishing those who would dare to use magic and/or psi for what the proponents of karma would call nefarious ends.

I am interested in hearing of omnimancy's take, or should I say the praticioners of omnimancy take, on this thorny issue.

[LordArt]

Well, that's always a loaded question. Let me try to explain it this way:

If you punch someone in the nose, they hit you back...that can be considered instant karma.

If you punch someone, they fall down, their freind sees you do this (or hears about it), they hit you in revenege. That is also a less instant karma.

It can permutate out from there. Karma isn't that simplistic, but sometimes it can be.

Now there is a mechinism in place for it, but I'm not going to go into any further details about it. This is one of the things I expect my students to figuire out on their own, so I certainly don't want to give it away here on a public forum. However, I will say that saying "the universe" is doing it is false. It shows a lack of understanding of how the universe works and what all is in it. That's kind of like saying "the universe" creates the latest fashion trend. There is a mechanism to that too, but most people don't want to bother to look that closely. (That isn't against your statement Celiborne, its just a statement in general).

I hope that answers your question.

[Celiborne]

LordArt

Thanks for the prompt response. You answered my question very nicely. I understand the reluctance to post too much info on the public forum. I will have to see to it that I become a student of Omnimancy to learn the rest.

[Naryx]

Karma is the creation of the Hindu religion. The only people with which it has anything to do, are the Hindu peoples. In any other context it is divorced of its original context and thus has a perverted meaning.

In short, unless your a hindu, the modern conception of karma is the creation of people who fear those who are more powerful than themselves. Basically what I'm really trying to say here is that unless your a hindu karma doesn't effect you.

The slave deserves to be ruled. The ruler deserves to rule, whether he got there by fair means or foul. Its dog-eat-dog. Throw away any ideas you have about 'karma' and 'cosmic backlash' if you expect to survive.

[MageMindy]

Here's a fun topic...

Some would say "Karma's a bitch, but she's a bitch who gives good head."

Others would say "You may not believe in Karma, but she sure believes in you"

I'd agree with both. Karma is simply getting what you deserve. No more, no less. You do good, good is done to you. You do bad, your life is gonna suck.

One more for good measure: "What goes around comes around"
That's pretty much it on Karma. It's a ballancing force in the universe.

-m-

[Beast]

You do good, good is done to you. You do bad, your life is gonna suck.

I have to disagree. Some real life examples:

A person is always helpful to other people, but everything in that person's life goes wrong. No matter how miserable that makes the person, he/she will always be friendly and helpfull to other people and creatures, and the more helpful and friendly that person is, the worse their situation seems to get. Almost as in work life, where if you do a lot of good work, you will get saddled with even more work.

Then in the business world, the most successful people (with what they deem as happy lives) are also the most unscrupulous people who don't give a damn about anyone except themselves and they try and screw people over where-ever they can. So unless their karma gives them a cosmic kick up the jacksie in the next life, it doesn't seem to exist.

As for the first example, I heard an interesting concept recently that can cause for a hot debate: when a person helps another person or being that was not supposed to be helped, you can pick up whatever karma that person had coming to them and have to carry it for them...

[Spartan]

A person is always helpful to other people, but everything in that person's life goes wrong. No matter how miserable that makes the person, he/she will always be friendly and helpfull to other people and creatures, and the more helpful and friendly that person is, the worse their situation seems to get. Almost as in work life, where if you do a lot of good work, you will get saddled with even more work.

I see that as action-reaction, nice/friendly is often looked at as weak/insecure(being nice to people so people will like you, and wanting to be liked, could mean you are weak and need others), and some(or a lot probably) will step on you for that.

Then in the business world, the most successful people (with what they deem as happy lives) are also the most unscrupulous people who don't give a damn about anyone except themselves and they try and screw people over where-ever they can. So unless their karma gives them a cosmic kick up the jacksie in the next life, it doesn't seem to exist.

Well here applies the above point again, they don't 'seem' weak, so those people will not be stepped on, they think they can do everything they want because they don't give a shit about others.

I don't really believe in karma, since doing good/bad deeds is a relative thing, people consider good and bad in different ways, so who is to say what should be punished and what should be rewarded?
The 1st example you gave, someone could see that as 'bad' behavior, being too nice(weak/insecure?), or the 2nd example could be looked at by someone and he would say, "good job, stay strong/whatever".

You do good, good is done to you. You do bad, your life is gonna suck.

IMO, that could be true, but not in the sense of karma really, if I help a friend with a problem, she may do somehting in return for me(which is action-reaction) and not karma, if i were to kill someone, then I don't believe that suddenly a lot of bad things start to happen in my life, but what I 'do' believe that can happen is, someone finds out I killed someone and it would get me into jail or something else, bad causes bad, but again, in an action-reaction way.

And of course there could be good causes bad or bad causes good things to happen. Lets say, when I helped my friend, someone else got hurt in the proces, I didn't know I could hurt anyone while helping my friend, but it happened anyway, the person that got hurt blames me, and I may get something bad in return, good -->(leads to) bad.

Could give more examples, but I think there are enough to get my point.

Spartan

[MageMindy]

Keep in mind there's past lives that may be involved too. Some bad stuff has happened to me in this lifetime that- after researching with Art- was discovered to be as a result of a past lifetime.

And to clarify, I don't think it's all about the deeds you do but the intentions behind em. The why of what you did, rather then simply what you did.

-m-

[Spartan]

"Some bad stuff has happened to me in this lifetime that- after researching with Art- was discovered to be as a result of a past lifetime."

The same has happened with me actually(different events of course, and
it didn't involve Art researching), but I still see that as a reaction on some event that happened earlier(in this case in a past life).

And intentions/reasons behind deeds/action are important. *nods*
[/quote]

[Naryx]

I find that being an unscrupulous bastard and just doing what I want to do (carefully planned so as to get away with it) pretty much defeats the idea of karma. Since I don't give a damn about the consequences to much, and have back-up plans in case the consequences somehow affect me, karma rarely enters the picture. For me at least.

[FireEssence]

Heh, that used to be me. Until I got caught without a backup plan.

[Naryx]

I, on the other hand, don't take a shit without a plan. And I do all sorts of things to keep my mind sharp.

[Obsidian]

1:00PM: Eat lunch.
1:15PM: Finish lunch
1:30PM: Take a shit

=)

[Naryx]

Right you are.

[Naryx]

I have a more thought out conclusion to post now.

If you open the door to karma, karma will affect you. If you keep that door closed and mentally insist karma cannot affect you, eventually the door will become so strongly reinforced that it becomes impossible for the enforcers of karma to get at you.

So as long as you keep that door shut, locked, and reinforced, its okay to be a rotten bastard. Thats what I think. And I'm happy being a rotten bastard now, and I hope to continue to be happy being a rotten bastard when I'm an old geezer -and- a rotten bastard.