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Phase 1: Get anyone we can back in...

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Postby MageMindy » Mon Dec 20, 2004 12:46 am

Sandi- Fear not, for it's good to be da female :) no draft for us!

Art- you're less likely now that you have the kid. Yay!

Rich- My suggestion... wait till they call the first few numbers, if you're not in em, then enlist. no point in enlisting if you dont really need to. Then again... I'd rather we all just tweak events so none get drafted. We're mages, we might as well ACT like mages :)

And whoever recomended the being insane at the physical... good idea :) I know someone booted out for being nutz. They're not gonna take anyone who's nutz.
And always go for the voices. That's the best sign of poor mental health. Take it from one in the field. :P

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Postby Strider » Mon Dec 20, 2004 12:50 am

Mindy,

You can thank the femme-nazi's for saying that an all male draft is sexist, thus the new one going through office is for all, not just for men. Nature of the times.

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Postby Obsidian » Mon Dec 20, 2004 10:25 am

Another pointless thing I've heard, regarding feminist's.
This one comes from a girl in my english class:

"It's not right to hit a girl...We should all be treated equally, why should girls get different treatment?"

Teehee. Open-order to maim and kill, regardless of gender. Now all I need to get rid of is age...

*coughs* As sexist as this may seem, why are they drafting women? Physically, they aren't as suited for war as men. Wouldn't it make more sense to have an army of men, than a mixed-army? Aside from all the freaky-deaky stuff happening back at camp, females are (untrained) physically weaker than males.

You American's. Every turn you're pulling out something that astounds me. But at least you're getting your oil, eh? ;)

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Postby LordArt » Mon Dec 20, 2004 11:41 am

Obsidian wrote:*coughs* As sexist as this may seem, why are they drafting women? Physically, they aren't as suited for war as men. Wouldn't it make more sense to have an army of men, than a mixed-army? Aside from all the freaky-deaky stuff happening back at camp, females are (untrained) physically weaker than males.


An army runs on more than men carrying guns. It requires logistics. In many cases, your logistical "army" is larger than your fighting one. Women can drive trucks, sort mail, load jets, cook, sew people back up, etc. Without the logistical army, the fighting army STOPS DEAD, which is one of the reasons why going after the supply lines of your enemy is such a popular tactic.

If you remember what happened in IRAQ with that one woman getting captured, she was on a supply run when they attacked the truck she was in.
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Postby Strider » Mon Dec 20, 2004 11:42 am

1) It is a war of technology and combat. With advances in weaponry and vehicles, hell even computers used, technology is the great equalizer towards "woman can't physically handle it".

B) Speaking as an anthropologist, women roles in army and the bootcamp bullshit all stems from having an all male army. Its a set indoctrinated mentality that can change given the proper nudges.

Fish) I've known women who have gone through military training and they are fucking hellstorms when it comes to proving themselves. They drive themselves harder because of the preconsieved notions.
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Postby LordFeh » Mon Dec 20, 2004 2:11 pm

What type of draft are you discussing Rich? Regular Lottery or Back-Door. I agree they're back-door drafting women already in the military. But those of us not already in don't have draft cards/numbers. So if it's a regular lottery draft you're discussing, there's no way to draft us. Besides, I don't see us getting draft numbers until we're constitutionally equal to men and we haven't gotten that far yet.
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Postby Strider » Mon Dec 20, 2004 3:02 pm

Mindy,

It wont be hard to get women registered for the draft. All they will do is post a bulliton out there that women between the ages of 18-xx must register for the draft.

When the draft was first implimented during the Civil War, men weren't registered either, they just called names of the people who lived in the town.

There are ways around not having a ticket... hell they might even make it part of being legaly considered a citizen if it gets bad enough (not that the current draft does this and I think it would be a bad move on the governments part, but hell it might happen).

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Postby Serene » Tue Dec 21, 2004 2:12 am

LordArt and Strider: here, here!

Obsidian, wake up and smell the coffee. Women have many strenghts, including physical. This female former Marine can tell you why the USMC has found it to their benefit to have female soldiers.

1. When women cant get the job done with brute force, they dont quit. They look for leverage and technology. The job will get done, and usually with fewer physical injuries.

2. Women typically take better care of the equipment.

3. Women encourage negotiation rather than settling differences amongst the group with a fist-fight. They also try to head off problems early that threaten the unity of the group.

4. Women are more conscientious about the care and treatment of wounds. "Shake it off, be a man" results in high rates of infections and weakened fighters.

5. Women tend to plan for contingencies. They dont assume everything will go as planned.

6. Women tend to complain less about factors that cannot be changed. It is what it is, accept and move on.

7. Women are meaner than men. They grieve early, for those they will kill. After that, when they choose to protect what is theirs, they tend to be very stoic, methodical and accurate killers.

8. Women tend to take a different approach to war than men. To hell with glory and plunder. Get the job done as swiftly and neatly as possible, she' s got other things to do.

9. Women are more territorial than men. Rearrange things in mom's kitchen and you'll find out in a hurry It's her unit, her equipment, and her pride in both. Those who mess with what is hers will have to deal with her wrath.

10. As for the sexual misconduct, the women are frequently as guilty as the men for fraternization. Harrassment is the result of little boys who need to grow up. If that requires a butt-stroke with their own rifle, so be it. Any man that cant behave himself in the presence of women does not rate to be called a man. Any woman that exacerbates it needs an ass-kicking and a dishonorable discharge for creating a distraction that endangers the unit.

Of course this does not personify all female soldiers. No characterization would. But remember, women are different in one very important way - while men will argue, fight it out and then have a beer and forget their differences, women are much slower to forgive. They will plot and scheme for the offenders demise. They will wait patiently for tthe right opportunity. They will have what they determine is justice, whatever the cost. In my experience, women have a much greater capacity for cruelty than men do. They are just sneakier at it and get caught far less often.
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Postby Naryx » Tue Dec 21, 2004 6:52 am

Serene, I completely disagree with your obviously female-biased commentary. The fact is, EITHER SEX, if properly trained, can function at a very elite level during millitary action. The problem in this situation is, that in order to manifest the kind of discipline one would need for such things, human rights concerns must sometimes be cast aside. I mean you wouldn't see a male harassing a female if they knew that, if they were caught, they would be visciously caned until their skin bruised and peeled off. But on the other hand, if a soldier knew that, if captured, they would simply be assassinated, wouldn't said soldier work all the harder to avoid getting caught in the first place? My point to this commentary is that when you abandon human rights in order to groom a lifetime-carreer fighting force, you either go one of two ways. Either you have an extremely elite fighting force that is determined to win by any means necessary, or, you end up with a bunch of gun toting psychopaths. If your command core is at all experienced, and is measurably competant at what they do, you should end up with Result A. In order to get result A, you must be methodical, determined, ruthless, and capable of both rewarding and punishing your troops with emotional impunity and psychological immovability.

As for you personally, if I wanted to take you out, I'd just blow the building you were in up. To hell with the collateral damage. Their civies anyway and they don't really count to start with. If I had to take you out without killing (insert random large number here) people in the process, I'd get into position and just snipe your ass with a customized Mosin Nagant bolt-action. You'd be dead before you knew what hit you. Then I'd blow the building up anyway and leave. To cover my tracks. How the hells THAT for sneaky?! :lol:

In any case and again, as I have said, either sex can function at an extremely elite level. And frankly, If I caught a female soldier in MY backyard during a war, I'd interrogate her and then rape her to death and send her head and hands back to her countries regional camp. Psychological warfare at its finest.

And by the way, before you write me off as some what-if-ing buffoon, take into account the fact that I actually know what I'm talking about, as I have studied millitary strategy and application since I was able to read.
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Postby Spartan » Tue Dec 21, 2004 10:41 am

Naryx wrote: As for you personally, if I wanted to take you out, I'd just blow the building you were in up. To hell with the collateral damage. Their civies anyway and they don't really count to start with. If I had to take you out without killing (insert random large number here) people in the process, I'd get into position and just snipe your ass with a customized Mosin Nagant bolt-action. You'd be dead before you knew what hit you. Then I'd blow the building up anyway and leave. To cover my tracks. How the hells THAT for sneaky?! :lol:

In any case and again, as I have said, either sex can function at an extremely elite level. And frankly, If I caught a female soldier in MY backyard during a war, I'd interrogate her and then rape her to death and send her head and hands back to her countries regional camp. Psychological warfare at its finest.

And by the way, before you write me off as some what-if-ing buffoon, take into account the fact that I actually know what I'm talking about, as I have studied millitary strategy and application since I was able to read.


You know what you are talking about, right...practical experience is IMO more important than what you read in some books, but that aside. You think you are suddenly tough now, saying you will rape woman to death or blow up civilians?....
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Postby LordArt » Tue Dec 21, 2004 12:53 pm

Naryx, I will not have flame fests started on my site. I don't want to see personal attacks vieled or otherwise in these forums. And don't give me crap that it wasn't a threat, because I know you better than that. If you want to conduct more psychological experiments on other people, do it in PM or on some other forum, I don't want to see it here.

You had something to say, and you said it, it didn't need to degrade to personal threats. Nor comments you KNOW are going to cause trouble.

This will be the only warning about this.
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Postby Naryx » Tue Dec 21, 2004 5:25 pm

Publically warning a wrong-doer is most often seen as a reaction to their wrong doing, placing the warning individual on the same level as the rest of the posters. Trying to humiliate me by making me out to be inferior to yourself, art, isn't going to do anything but alienate me from you. It won't solve any problems. Throwing me off the board instead of making an effort to actually do something about the problem isn't going to solve it either.

As for you, my dutch friend, I don't suddenly think I'm tough. And I do have practical experience. I said what I mean to say, spartan. Continuing on that track would violate the administrations rule on the subject. This particular arc of conversation is over, according to the implicit wishes of LordArt. I advise you to take your administration seriously enough to submit to his wishes.

ADMIN EDIT: Provoking. Next time, your banned. No flame fests.

Now that is squared away, where was I. Ah yes. Practical experience. The methodology of the sniper is based on hunting techniques that have been evolving since before humanity had recorded history. It is as easy, if not easier, to hunt your food with these techniques as it is to kill large numbers of people with them. Therefore I do have practical experience. There have been times in my life in which, if I hadn't known of these techniques, I wouldn't have eaten. You try applying techniques you've only read about when putting food on the table is an issue. As for the rape comments, I get sick and tired of these fem-lib people and their ridiculous notion that women are, simply put, better than men. They aren't. It was the obvious fem-superiority undertone that put me into such a vicious mood. And I'm not sorry I said it. I don't feel one speck of remorse for my deeds. Nor will I ever.

Edit. Addition.

Before some smart ass jackoff decides to say 'hunting animals is one thing, killing armed humans is another' and blah blah-blah blah, let me tell you something. Getting shot is infinately better than getting attacked by wild game. See when you get shot, your most often just dead, or have a relatively localized injury. But when you get attacked by a stag's horns, -if- you survive, you're mutilated for life. If you get punched by a bear claw you get your stomach ripped open and you fly backwards, spraying blood in all directions as your guts fall out. Big game are more dangerous than armed humans, as the two examples illustrate.
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Postby Spartan » Tue Dec 21, 2004 7:08 pm

As for you, my dutch friend, I don't suddenly think I'm tough. And I do have practical experience. I said what I mean to say, spartan. Continuing on that track would violate the administrations rule on the subject. This particular arc of conversation is over, according to the implicit wishes of LordArt. I advise you to take your administration seriously enough to submit to his wishes.


I assumed you didn't have practical experience since you said, "I have studied millitary strategy and application since I was able to read."

Now that is squared away, where was I. Ah yes. Practical experience. The methodology of the sniper is based on hunting techniques that have been evolving since before humanity had recorded history. It is as easy, if not easier, to hunt your food with these techniques as it is to kill large numbers of people with them. Therefore I do have practical experience. There have been times in my life in which, if I hadn't known of these techniques, I wouldn't have eaten. You try applying techniques you've only read about when putting food on the table is an issue.


In what way does, "The methodology of the sniper is based on hunting techniques that have been evolving since before humanity had recorded history. It is as easy, if not easier, to hunt your food with these techniques as it is to kill large numbers of people with them." , point to, "Therefore I do have practical experience."? You mean you have practical experience because you had to shoot animals for food("There have been times in my life in which, if I hadn't known of these techniques, I wouldn't have eaten." ), and you used the sniper(and the sniper techniques(that have evolved from the past hunting techniques))? Because that, in no way, points to practical experience in war and/or the military, knowing how to use a sniper rifle(against animals(not trained military enemy soldiers, in the middle of a war)) won't make you a military 'know-it-all' with practical "military" experience.

"You try applying techniques you've only read about when putting food on the table is an issue." The point of me trying to apply those things has nothing to do with you having/not having practical military experience.

As for the rape comments, I get sick and tired of these fem-lib people and their ridiculous notion that women are, simply put, better than men. They aren't. It was the obvious fem-superiority undertone that put me into such a vicious mood. And I'm not sorry I said it. I don't feel one speck of remorse for my deeds. Nor will I ever.


"It was the obvious fem-superiority undertone that put me into such a vicious mood." I'd advise you to learn to take a bit more control over your emotions, and not let a typed message get to you so much, though, that's just my opinion. =)


Edit. Addition.

Before some smart ass jackoff decides to say 'hunting animals is one thing, killing armed humans is another' and blah blah-blah blah, let me tell you something. Getting shot is infinately better than getting attacked by wild game. See when you get shot, your most often just dead, or have a relatively localized injury. But when you get attacked by a stag's horns, -if- you survive, you're mutilated for life. If you get punched by a bear claw you get your stomach ripped open and you fly backwards, spraying blood in all directions as your guts fall out. Big game are more dangerous than armed humans, as the two examples illustrate.


Those 2 examples illustrate nothing of animals being more dangerous than armed human soldiers, it totally depends on who you are up against, if it's a human being that is your opponent, it depens on experience of that person and external conditions, and other things, same for animals, how big is the animal, how far away, what kind of animal, a rabbit or a bear, it all just depends, you can't compare them like that. That, again, points out that you have no practical experience in war/war like events/military and such.[/i]
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Postby StormSeeker » Tue Dec 21, 2004 8:38 pm

Methinks Spart said it best.

I don't care how much textbook knowledge/study a person has, in any field. It's not practical experience. It will never equate to hands-on practical field experience. I've found this out in magic, and psionics; I know it's at least somewhat true from a military perspective since my father trained cadets for years; I know it's true from the canine psychology point of view and from the writing p.o.v, due to personal experience. The list could go on..

Fact of the matter is: amongst the online communities, there are so many more people who have read this or that, or heard this or that, than have actually worked with energy to a significant degree and have good practical experience. Their knowledge level may be sky-high, but what good is it if they don't have the ability to use it because they've not exercised the energy manipulation "muscles" enough to become competent with energy?

Answer: not much. Maybe bar teaching, and/or seeming to be more knowledgable than others. And last I looked, folks who teach from textbook knowledge without much or any practical experience, fall into a lot of traps; and can't advise the student when they hit problems because they've not had the same experiences.

So, Naryx, I'm really curious -

It won't solve any problems. Throwing me off the board instead of making an effort to actually do something about the problem isn't going to solve it either.


What IS the problem, in your humble opinion; and what would you do to solve it?

I advise you to take your administration seriously enough to submit to his wishes.


He's as much your administration as he is Spartan's, whilst you're posting on this forum. And before you go to deny that or speak against that observation, you ARE the one cancelling that "arc of conversation" due to Arthur's wishes, which means you submit as well ;)

The methodology of the sniper is based on hunting techniques that have been evolving since before humanity had recorded history. It is as easy, if not easier, to hunt your food with these techniques as it is to kill large numbers of people with them. Therefore I do have practical experience.


Mmm. I for one am eagerly awaiting Rich's reply to this, if he decides to post.

As for the rape comments, I get sick and tired of these fem-lib people and their ridiculous notion that women are, simply put, better than men. They aren't. It was the obvious fem-superiority undertone that put me into such a vicious mood. And I'm not sorry I said it. I don't feel one speck of remorse for my deeds. Nor will I ever.


Ahh, so you feel the need to stand up and say: "Hey, you're not better than us, we can fuck you over just as badly, if not more so?"

Aww, c'mon Naryx. If you're that easily offended, what are you doing on an open discussion forum? Trolling? Think before you speak. It may make you seem as intelligent as you strive to appear to be.

Big game are more dangerous than armed humans, as the two examples illustrate.


You shouldn't generalize. It's not accurate; whichever side of the coin you're rooting for, and this isn't some English deparment discursive essay you're writing - two heresy examples, does not a case, make.

Before you can accurately assess that, you have to take into account, circumstances, environment, capability of both human(s) and animal(s), and multiple other factors.

I think Serene has good points, actually. Okay, I'm not fond of the feminist approach myself (being female, this probably ranks me as weird, but that's okay); but women can and do have qualities and attitudes different from men, which can often be more suited to a situation than their male counterparts. Sometimes more so, if they're pushed to make something of themselves, as Rich said.

And the reverse is of course, true as well.
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Postby Naryx » Tue Dec 21, 2004 10:06 pm

I'm smart enough to know a trap when I see it. You aren't going to back me into a corner that easily. It has obviously reached a point at which there is no way out. Basically what I'm saying is, if I read you right, no matter what I say, it will only exacerbate the situation. Since you obviously want to challenge me because you obviously believe me to be an ignorant nothing, I'm bringing the fight to your doorstep. If you can't handle that, ban me. I hardly ever post on here anyway and am unlikely to give a damn. As for whether or not I'm intelligent, I'm sensible enough to know that there are certain situations in which looking like an idiot can bring a tactical advantage. This, however, is not one of them. As for your judgements of my person, they have NO BASIS in fact, since you know NOTHING about me as a person. The only thing you can know for sure without breaking into my computer is what I type on this forum. The fact is, shooting a deer through the neck with a rifle shot from a grassy hill is about the same as shooting an enemy soldier in the back of the head from the same grassy knoll. The difference is, the soldier is likely to do something along the lines of using technology to kill you, instead of charging at you with its horns. -If- he knew you were there. And that, is yet another significant factor. In order to properly sniper an individual, it is imperative that the snipers position remain unknown. Basically it comes down to three things. 1, having a reliable gun and scope, 2, having reasonably competant camo, and 3, shoot-relocate-shoot-relocate. I tried to do the sensible thing and cancel this arc of discussion, but fuck that. Since you find it needful to attack me for no god damn reason this is war. It seems to me that no matter what I do around here some asshat has to take it the wrong way and judge me. Why can't you for once accept the fact that a stranger might actually know what the fuck their talking about? Is that so hard? Obviously it is. There are three things about me, it seems, that make me unpopular around here. The first of these is that I hate women, as evidenced by the violent response to serene. The second is that I am wholey devoted to the blacker side of the arts, and have an appropriate personality due to this fact, and the third is that I insist on being taken reasonably seriously when I start talking about something that is academic. None of this is going to change. If you can't handle the way I am, fuck off. I'm not sorry for that either. LordArt, I'm not sorry I broke your rule. I don't care as a matter of fact. This has gone beyond just a squabble on the net. I'm sick and tired of being judged constantly. I point the accusing finger at YOU, because it is YOU who are guilty this time. I'm tired of basically just being who I am and having to deal with people who obviously want to cause friction with me. Let me tell you a little something about how I hunt. I take with me one rifle, eight bullets, and a scope, as well as some notes about which things are okay to eat and which aren't. I walk to where I want to hunt at, eat snakes and mushrooms while looking for good places to snipe from, and then get into position. When something comes along I shoot it and take it home. Don't you DARE tell me I don't have field experience. And another thing, on a slightly different topic. The reason I practice the blacker side of the arts is because I'm tired of being stomped on by everyone. Don't think I won't use any information at my disposal to get rid of anyone who annoys me. If you can't handle the facts of the case, then you need to just stop communicating with me. My position on these matters will never change. The only thing that can change my mind about anything or anyone is me. No amount of verbal abuse, death threats, physical violence, or other abuses will change my mind. Period. Nor any threat from any administrative party, be it on a forum or in a police station. I am my own man. Period. Whatever your judgement of me is given your obvious distaste for my character, you can just fuck yourselves.
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